Reminds me when i worked at a MAN dealership in the80s- had a driver come in defecting his 331 with the fuller 13 speed " It crunches when i change down he said "
…Yes he was serious! 
renaultman:
Carryfast:
renaultman:
Carryfast:
renaultman:
Carryfast:
Driveroneuk:
Carryfast:
By the way in the old days some/most instructors wanted to see you block change going down the box when slowing down instead of changing down one gear at a time sequentially
Eh? Me thinks you’ve got that the wrong way about.
In the very old days when brakes were crap (remember that 40mph single carriageway limit?) the way to drive was to change down gear by gear to get engine braking to assist the brakes.
Nowadays (like the last 20+ years) we have powerfull brakes that work. Block changing is the norm & is expected on test.
Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.
But there was a time like when I did my tests 30 and 26 years ago when the zb’s were starting to bring in those new ideas of using the brakes because it was supposedly cheaper to wear them out instead of using the gearbox to help slow the thing down and we were trained that way at that time even though we still used good old fashioned drum brakes and ‘proper’ fuller boxes amongst others.I can also remember using that block changing method to keep the instructors happy but using the sequential one on test.Passed both first time.Block changing might be the norm and expected on test these days but hopefully if the OP really is driving a ‘proper’ box he’ll forget what he was taught and downshift through the gears one at a time if the box is to survive
Ha another cynic!
The engine has a lot more pulling power than braking power. If it can get it up to x speed id can help get it back down.
When I first started to drive I used my engine/box for slowing down to save my brakes for stopping, and my clutch once, to get moving.
I gave up watching people take my old Bedford out of the yard as my nerves couldn’t stand it, and hoped that it would come back.The pros and cons of using engine braking versus just brakes to slow a truck have also been discussed on other topics/threads and I’ve always said that it’s wrong to rely on just the brakes.But in this context it’s the idea of block changing that I was trying to point out as being one of the bad by products of that ,because it’s much easier on the transmission,and for matching road and engine speeds,with a constant mesh box,to downshift it sequentially in small close ratio steps instead of downshifting from a much relatively higher gear straight into a relatively much lower gear.But I’m not sure wether you meant using the clutch just to get moving as in the context of the clutchless change argument or not?.But from what I can make out I think that driving by the (American) book,with a good old fashioned yank box,is exactly my idea and I’d probably prefer to do their test,if I was starting to drive now,than ours.
To be honest
I find block changes, both up and down, useful at times. Even on the old Eaton Fullers. Especially when empty.
I would also spec a truck with a 16 speed zf if I bought another one, unless I was only going to drive it myself. Then I would spec it with the old 13 speed Fuller if they still made it.That’s one of the reasons why a yank truck is an even more preferable idea now because they still mainly use the old Fuller boxes in them and even better they seem to have an option with the splitter on both the low range and the high range making it an 18 speed box.But block changing just seems to defeat the object of having a multi/close ratio box in that you’re just using it like a typical old wide ratio box found on the old Brit heaps from the 1950’s etc.Downshifting those was effectively like block changing with a 13 speed fuller in that you had to brake the thing down to a much lower road speed before you could get the next gear down and I can remember plenty of times in the days when Gardner powered heaps with six speeds in them were still around often at worst either ran out of road speed before the driver could even get the next gear up because of the age it took for the revs to fall far enough for the next gear up or at best caused plenty of gear clashing bringing new meaning and sound to the term ‘constant mesh’.Although having said that I managed ok as a new driver when I was given an AEC Matador to drive on the council a few times after being more used to Bedford TM’s with a Detroit and a Fuller in them
I gave up watching people take my old Bedford out of the yard as my nerves couldn’t stand it, and hoped that it would come back
Is why I would spec a synchro box, or mebbe have to be automatic nowadays
Back to block changing. If you’re empty or going down hill, surely you don’t split every gear? I can understand the need for close ratios when fully freighted. I started off on a 200 sed atk with the 6 speed David Brown gearbox and temperamental twin speed axle. went from that to a 201 with a zf 6 speed with a splitter (same box as in the JCB fastrac now I think) Went from that to a Bedford TM with an L10 290 ■■■■■■■ and a nine speed fuller. Talk about a culture shock? Anyway back to the topic, just stating my credentials. I don’t agree with cooking the brakes but was sold on block changing as a way to reduce the number of times I had to move the stick in a day, as a lazy git that’s what sold it to me. I use the gears and engine to help check my speed on hills, but also have no problem with dropping 2 3 or even a full range of gears at a time if the situation suits it. I also find it a help when hitting very big hills if you go down the gears 1 at a time your revs drop faster than you can change gear.
I think that you’re confusing half gears with full ones.What I’m saying mostly relates to slowing down for lights junctions etc in the context of full gear downshifts eg 13th (overdrive/high split) down to 12th (direct/low split) then leave it in low split/direct all down the box making full gear,but sequential,downshifts until you reach the gear you want to pull away again with.Half gear up shifts and down shifts are used in the context of as and when required to keep the engine speed in it’s optimum torque/power output band unless it’s a 9 speed in which case there’s no splitter anyway.However the way they teach them these days (block changing) is to leave it in top and just use the brakes all the way down to whatever speed and/or gear you need to pull away again including a full stop.So like leave it in 16th on a zb synchro then brake until you’ve either stopped or reached whatever speed you want then put it straight into like 3rd/4th or whatever relying on the synchros to get you out of trouble instead of what would be like all hell breaking loose with a proper box . But if you found that loaded going uphills you were loosing revs faster than you could make half gear downshifts with a fuller it was either a gutless motor or you were too slow and/or lazy to drop the gears quick enough or a combination of all of them .But here’s an example of the way they teach them how to slow a truck down and pull away again in the States using a proper yank box and that’s the way I’ve always done it and notice the driver is shifting them and the instructor counting them as full gears not half ones but they are sequential changes not block changing.By the way ignore all of the above in the case of the old constant mesh ZF 12 speed splitter. Sequential in that case meant changing half a gear at a time at all times going up and down the box empty or loaded.
Carryfast:
chris_89:
Seems odd that an X reg wouldn’t have synchromesh. How the hell ERF got away with being stuck in the dark ages for so long I’ll never know.To some of us synchro boxes are the dark ages.Slow changing heavy to use zb things.
Give me a fuller box over everything, very quick change, and makes you get in the right gear at the right time.
try this one no clutch. youtube.com/watch?v=TPm-CSpF … re=related
Thanks for putting this link on 
The first truck i drove over here was a Freightliner with a 318 detroit and a 13 speed, in no time at all i was driving as expertly as this guy… Yea, right 
remy:
[quote="try this one no clutch. [youtube.com/watch?v=TPm-CSpF … re=related]
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPm-CSpF2wg&feature=related)
Thanks for putting this link on
The first truck i drove over here was a Freightliner with a 318 detroit and a 13 speed, in no time at all i was driving as expertly as this guy… Yea, right
[/quote]
You should have tried the TM.Diabolical linkage installation like most Brit cab overs compared to a yank conventional but could still make faster changes than that using the clutch.But the Detroit two strokes were the best to learn on because they always needed fast well timed changes.
kr79:
I must admit a fuller is hard to beat just put the inbred bit in as a wind up don’t know about the master race because my dad recons given the choice between an atki borderer and a 1418 merc he would have chosen the atkinson and he is deffintly not someone who goes misty eyed at trucks of the when men were made of steel and the trucks are made of wood era.
What is it that people get all misty eyed about atkinsons for anyway I think its a northern thing.
Was told by someone a few years ago that they could always spot a Borderer driver-their backs were hunched because when designed, Atkinson forgot to design a place for the driver.
And thank God my Alphas got a cat engine, the Fuller box changes ata snails pace.
peterm:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Use the clutch in a constant mesh Eaton-Fuller
Maybe if you’ve got plenty of time and you don’t mind risking wrecking the trans but if not and if you want a fast change then using the clutch is best.
Oh no it ain’t
Too right it ain’t 
Carryfast, I’m going to assume the role of Bewick for this post, so, on your you tube videos it may seem that way, but in the real world people who USE Eaton-Fuller gearboxes do not use the clutch except for pulling away, if you want to talk about fast upshifts then you cannot get a faster shift than by having the Jake Brake on and ‘floating’ the shift, the Jake cuts the engine revs instantly and you have a job moving the stick quick enough between gears, this is something the modern automated manuals, such as Volvo’s I-shift, do, only they can’t do it as quick as a good driver can, trust me on this, I do a lot of miles every day with an 18speed roadranger in my hand, you cannot beat a properly timed clutchless shift, for both speed and smoothness
I also had a Leyland Clydesdale of 1974 vintage, IIRC it had a slow change, there were only 6 gears so the engine had to lose/gain a lot more revs before you could change up or down, similar to a 6speed David Brown box behind a Gardner, a 9/10/13/18speed fuller has less of a gap between ratios and therefore requires less of a drop/gain in revs, which in turn gives a faster change, that’s probably why a Fuller was the best box behind the free running Gardner engines 
newmercman:
peterm:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Use the clutch in a constant mesh Eaton-FullerMaybe if you’ve got plenty of time and you don’t mind risking wrecking the trans but if not and if you want a fast change then using the clutch is best.
Oh no it ain’t
Too right it ain’t
Carryfast, I’m going to assume the role of Bewick for this post, so, on your you tube videos it may seem that way, but in the real world people who USE Eaton-Fuller gearboxes do not use the clutch except for pulling away, if you want to talk about fast upshifts then you cannot get a faster shift than by having the Jake Brake on and ‘floating’ the shift, the Jake cuts the engine revs instantly and you have a job moving the stick quick enough between gears, this is something the modern automated manuals, such as Volvo’s I-shift, do, only they can’t do it as quick as a good driver can, trust me on this, I do a lot of miles every day with an 18speed roadranger in my hand, you cannot beat a properly timed clutchless shift, for both speed and smoothness
I also had a Leyland Clydesdale of 1974 vintage, IIRC it had a slow change, there were only 6 gears so the engine had to lose/gain a lot more revs before you could change up or down, similar to a 6speed David Brown box behind a Gardner, a 9/10/13/18speed fuller has less of a gap between ratios and therefore requires less of a drop/gain in revs, which in turn gives a faster change, that’s probably why a Fuller was the best box behind the free running Gardner engines
Blimey if you take Bewick’s advice he’ll get the old Atki and Guy Big J and Gardner production lines up and running again to supply the North American market with old Brit motors so that your guvnor can then just use a Fuller box in them and they can shut down all the rest of their engine and truck production over there .On the subject of the old Clydesdale I’ll tell it as I remember it having,like plenty of different types of wagons with Fullers in them,although admittedly never a Fuller behind a Gardner powered heap,USED it too.(1)Like a Detroit the revs on the old Leyland Clydesdale engine would fall a lot quicker than they would on a Gardner,Leyland 680,Rolls Eagle or ■■■■■■■ and probably a CAT,but I’ve never tried one of those,when you de clutched it.(2)The ratios between first and second and second and third were too wide admittedly.However the ones between third,fourth,fifth and sixth were close enough to change as quick,if not quicker, and as cleanly as the 9 speed Fuller’s high range of gears and clutchless changes no problem either if you wanted to give the leg a rest.It does’nt always follow that there’s a connection between ratio spacing and amount of gears.Having said that you’d improve anything by putting a fuller box in it and the DB was one of the worst so it’s not surprising that the Fuller was an improvement behind the Gardner but shame about the engine .By the way I asked one of the clutchless change ‘users’ if clutchless changes would satisfy the requirements of the CDL test over there as obviously there’s also an ongoing argument concerning the pros and cons of clutchless changes on that side of the Atlantic too and obviously among those who ‘use’ Fullers unless it’s a fake video of an instructor training someone how to drive by the book and don’t forget using a jake brake is’nt much use for making downshifts any faster. .As for me I’ll leave the clutchless changing to the auto box fans as the two seem to go together in the same way that double de clutching a Fuller with a Detroit in a TM did.
Muckaway:
kr79:
I must admit a fuller is hard to beat just put the inbred bit in as a wind up don’t know about the master race because my dad recons given the choice between an atki borderer and a 1418 merc he would have chosen the atkinson and he is deffintly not someone who goes misty eyed at trucks of the when men were made of steel and the trucks are made of wood era.
What is it that people get all misty eyed about atkinsons for anyway I think its a northern thing.Was told by someone a few years ago that they could always spot a Borderer driver-their backs were hunched because when designed, Atkinson forgot to design a place for the driver.
And thank God my Alphas got a cat engine, the Fuller box changes ata snails pace.
It might be because it’s got a CAT engine and not a Detroit two stroke that you have to change it at a snails pace or it might be a synchro Fuller
i remember the first wagon i had the pleasure of sitting behind the wheel of was a sed atki and it had what was apparently called a chinese box.
if you werent told or had the placard with the gear layout I dont think you would have even got it rolling.
KR79,
Love the comment about Americans eating they completely lack the ability to use a knife & fork at the same time, when they do have to cut something they hold their fork in a dagger grip, while hacking at the offending piece of food with the knife, just as a 3yr old would do, I suppose it’s because the usually eat fried chicken, ribs or burgers with fries, all stuff they eat with their hands Although as a consequence when you do order a bit of steak, it’s never tough, it would cause them too many problems trying to hack at it if it was, so you get melt in the mouth cuts of meat, mmmmm mmmmmmmm
Carryfast,
You’re a complete contraditiction, you slag off Guy/Atki et all, yet they were vehicle assemblers, not manufacturers like Volvo/Scania/Merc who make their own engines/gearboxes/axles etc. Guy/Atki and even your beloved Bedford TMs were assembled from a variety of components, the only thing that was made in house were the cabs (not Guy) a few trim items and the badges, do you know the only company that does this now? Paccar, who make your Yankee Peterbilt and Kenworth trucks
The art of shifting any gearbox is to get the revs right, even in a synchro box, so as to avoid wearing out the synchros, in a constant mesh box it doesn’t matter if you use the clutch or not, if the revs ain’t right you’re going to be grinding the gears, whether you’re changing one at a time or block changing
newmercman:
KR79,Love the comment about Americans eating
Carryfast,
You’re a complete contraditiction, you slag off Guy/Atki et all, yet they were vehicle assemblers, not manufacturers like Volvo/Scania/Merc who make their own engines/gearboxes/axles etc. Guy/Atki and even your beloved Bedford TMs were assembled from a variety of components, the only thing that was made in house were the cabs (not Guy) a few trim items and the badges, do you know the only company that does this now? Paccar, who make your Yankee Peterbilt and Kenworth trucks
The art of shifting any gearbox is to get the revs right, even in a synchro box, so as to avoid wearing out the synchros, in a constant mesh box it doesn’t matter if you use the clutch or not, if the revs ain’t right you’re going to be grinding the gears, whether you’re changing one at a time or block changing
The one about the yanks eating habits might go back to the days when all they had to eat was a plate full of beans which they ate with a spoon and half a buffalo each which they had to cut up with a Bowie knife out on the range.
At least you did’nt say that I’m a complete something else beginning with c. But block changing,the way they teach it here,is going to take some seriously quick revs/road speed matching calculations while it’s being braked down from sixteenth to third if you don’t want to load up the synchros in a ZF synchro too much or send a Fuller into the next world in a shower of metal bits that’s assuming the brakes are’nt on fire as well just before the box gets wrecked. But there’s nothing wrong with vehicle assembly versus manufacture, depending on the bits they choose to assemble into the finished article,which is why I liked the old TM considering the competition at the time from the ‘manufacturers’ although even manufacturers all buy in componentry from outside anyway.Unfortunately I never got the chance to try the logical conclusion of an assembly operation like KW or Pete where the customers just asked for what they wanted and still do.In that context it would have been something like a KW with a Turbocharged 12V71 or 12V92 and 13 speed Fuller for me versus a V8 Scania ?.No contest it would have been a no brainer so there’s nothing contradictory about that.The assembly operation is more flexible in giving the customers what they want.The problem here has always been that the customers preferred to buy trucks which history shows were’nt as good as the yank customers asked their assemblers to build.Anyway back to the original question would clutchless changes (and/or block changing) get you through the yank CDL driving test and if not why not.
Carryfast:
Muckaway:
kr79:
I must admit a fuller is hard to beat just put the inbred bit in as a wind up don’t know about the master race because my dad recons given the choice between an atki borderer and a 1418 merc he would have chosen the atkinson and he is deffintly not someone who goes misty eyed at trucks of the when men were made of steel and the trucks are made of wood era.
What is it that people get all misty eyed about atkinsons for anyway I think its a northern thing.Was told by someone a few years ago that they could always spot a Borderer driver-their backs were hunched because when designed, Atkinson forgot to design a place for the driver.
And thank God my Alphas got a cat engine, the Fuller box changes ata snails pace.It might be because it’s got a CAT engine and not a Detroit two stroke that you have to change it at a snails pace
It is a synchro Fuller, but I can change up without the clutch as long as it’s within the same range, not sure if I’m meant to but it works!
Carryfast:
newmercman:
KR79,Love the comment about Americans eating
Carryfast,
You’re a complete contraditiction, you slag off Guy/Atki et all, yet they were vehicle assemblers, not manufacturers like Volvo/Scania/Merc who make their own engines/gearboxes/axles etc. Guy/Atki and even your beloved Bedford TMs were assembled from a variety of components, the only thing that was made in house were the cabs (not Guy) a few trim items and the badges, do you know the only company that does this now? Paccar, who make your Yankee Peterbilt and Kenworth trucks
The art of shifting any gearbox is to get the revs right, even in a synchro box, so as to avoid wearing out the synchros, in a constant mesh box it doesn’t matter if you use the clutch or not, if the revs ain’t right you’re going to be grinding the gears, whether you’re changing one at a time or block changing
The one about the yanks eating habits might go back to the days when all they had to eat was a plate full of beans which they ate with a spoon and half a buffalo each which they had to cut up with a Bowie knife out on the range.
At least you did’nt say that I’m a complete something else beginning with c.
I couldnt beleive the american eating habits when i fist went there. I dont know what was the biggest shock the knife and fork manouvres or the pancake and maple syrup on top of the fried breakfast. Even though im not a big red meat eater i must say the best steaks ive had have been in America.
Carryfast you have been watching to much bonanza with bowie knifes and beans for dinner.
When i done my hgv test 10 years ago we wasnt told to leave it it top and grop 5 or 6 gears at a time you would only drop a couple at a time for example if i slow down from say 50 mph id drop from 8th high to 6 hi then 5th thats in my 16 speed synchro man and i used the same technique in the foden with a 13 speed fuller i used to drive
kr79:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
KR79,Love the comment about Americans eating
Carryfast,
You’re a complete contraditiction, you slag off Guy/Atki et all, yet they were vehicle assemblers, not manufacturers like Volvo/Scania/Merc who make their own engines/gearboxes/axles etc. Guy/Atki and even your beloved Bedford TMs were assembled from a variety of components, the only thing that was made in house were the cabs (not Guy) a few trim items and the badges, do you know the only company that does this now? Paccar, who make your Yankee Peterbilt and Kenworth trucks
The art of shifting any gearbox is to get the revs right, even in a synchro box, so as to avoid wearing out the synchros, in a constant mesh box it doesn’t matter if you use the clutch or not, if the revs ain’t right you’re going to be grinding the gears, whether you’re changing one at a time or block changing
The one about the yanks eating habits might go back to the days when all they had to eat was a plate full of beans which they ate with a spoon and half a buffalo each which they had to cut up with a Bowie knife out on the range.
At least you did’nt say that I’m a complete something else beginning with c.
I couldnt beleive the american eating habits when i fist went there. I dont know what was the biggest shock the knife and fork manouvres or the pancake and maple syrup on top of the fried breakfast. Even though im not a big red meat eater i must say the best steaks ive had have been in America.
Carryfast you have been watching to much bonanza with bowie knifes and beans for dinner.
When i done my hgv test 10 years ago we wasnt told to leave it it top and grop 5 or 6 gears at a time you would only drop a couple at a time for example if i slow down from say 50 mph id drop from 8th high to 6 hi then 5th thats in my 16 speed synchro man and i used the same technique in the foden with a 13 speed fuller i used to drive
kr 79 Don’t know if you were referring to the US test or ours there.But your ideas seem like the common sense idea of changing gears in relatively small steps.But sometime ago Rog posted some up to date Brit driving instruction guidelines which also confirmed the way that my instructors wanted gears to be used even when I did my tests long before 10 years ago and we had a discussion about it on here.Just as they (tried to) teach me back then the guidelines actually call for the truck to be braked in whatever gear it’s in,including top,down to a standstill if required,without any downshifts whatsoever,and then put it directly into whatever gear is required to pull away with (block changing).The guidelines also said de clutch and coast if required presumably to help with the obvious conflict in the driveline resulting from the thing being in a too high gear as the speed comes down. .Very similar to your idea,most times coming down the box with a 16 speed synchro ZF or a thirteen speed fuller,when slowing down,I changed them sequentially two at a time by skipping out all the high/splits but starting from 15th/8th not 16th/8th high and 12th not 13th in the case of the Fuller.One of the exceptions to that would be descending hills in which case I’d keep the revs up,to get more engine braking,by sequentially downshifting half a gear at a time in the same way that I’d sequentially downshift or upshift half a gear at a time when climbing to keep the revs as close as possible to max power.But with the ZF 12 speed constant mesh box that was needed anyway whatever.But all the info seems to suggest that there is a big difference on the issue between what the American driving instructors/test calls for,concerning sequential changes,and the British lot concerning block changing .Probably because the British test is based on synchro boxes where there’s more chance of getting away with such a stupid idea. In addition to which there also seems to be some difference between what the American driving instructors/test calls for (probably based,rightly,on saving the box from possible damage in the long term),concerning the use of clutches,and those who seem to think that you should always apply clutchless changes to a constant mesh box which has traditionally called for good old fashioned double de clutching. .
I know I had to change down sequentially on my UK driving test, it was in a D series with an 8spd range change box, can’t remember for sure, but I think you had to double de-clutch and go all the way down into 1st, I took my Canadian test in an autoshift similar to the Scania Opticruise which uses a clutch to pull away and reverse, it was Big Freight’s motor and the newer ones are all autos so I had no choice, but I know you have to use the clutch on a test if in a manual lorry
newmercman:
I know I had to change down sequentially on my UK driving test, it was in a D series with an 8spd range change box, can’t remember for sure, but I think you had to double de-clutch and go all the way down into 1st, I took my Canadian test in an autoshift similar to the Scania Opticruise which uses a clutch to pull away and reverse, it was Big Freight’s motor and the newer ones are all autos so I had no choice, but I know you have to use the clutch on a test if in a manual lorry
I think you might have been referring to the actual gearchanging excersise part of the Brit test which I can also remember and they probably still have to do that today but probably without the double de clutching any more in view of the OP’s original questions here (which supports the accusation of dumbing down the job ) .But except for that excersise my instructors told me to do it exactly as Rog said and that’s where we had a ‘bit’ of a disagreement between myself and them,just like I did with Rog on here ,which resulted in me doing exactly that under instruction and then said zb it on test and did it the good old fashioned American way and passed first time classes 2 and 1. Anyway at it stands at present my argument,backed by the video,which I posted of an American driver under instruction for the CDL test,and the reasons given in the video’s comments post,for using the clutch as opposed to clutchless changes,seems ahead on points. .Having said all that,and on the subject of dumbing down the job,shame on those Canadians for speccing autos.
TWO TIPS I WOULD GIVE ON A CRASH BOX
1.DON,T GET CAUGHT IN THE WRONG GEAR WHEN COMING TO A HALT.
2.WHEN UPSHIFTING OR DOWNSHIFTING WHEN PASSING THROUGH NEUTRAL BLIP THE THROTLE A LITTLE TO KEEP THE CORRECT REVS WILL GO THROUGH AS SWEET AS A NUT.
matt2489:
I have got to use a X reg ERF for the next few days, and have just been informed that it has a ‘crash Gearbox’.First of all am I right in saying that I just need to double the clutch to get the correct gear ? and if so at what revs ?
Any help will be appreciated.
Just need Cluth to pull off.All other can you do without Clutch. Gear goes in like Hot Knife in butter if you found out the right Rpm.
One Tip:“If you rep high,Hill up,pull the Gear out,tough short exhaust Brake to kill Rpm quicker and put next Gear in Place!”
Don’t try putting Gear whit full Hand in.It won’t go if not will.But if it goes is Power of two finger enough.
Carryfast:
kr79:
I must admit a fuller is hard to beat just put the inbred bit in as a wind up don’t know about the master race because my dad recons given the choice between an atki borderer and a 1418 merc he would have chosen the atkinson and he is deffintly not someone who goes misty eyed at trucks of the when men were made of steel and the trucks are made of wood era.
What is it that people get all misty eyed about atkinsons for anyway I think its a northern thing.Don’t ask me I’m a Southerner born and bred but Bewick’s lot seem to like Atkis for some reason especially with a zb Gardner fitted in it
Just a point Carryfast the Merc 2534 used a Mercedes gearbox, not the ZF Ecosplit. The last Mercs to use the ZF manual was the 2025/2028/2033 with the 2035/1644 using it with EPS, after that (1989) the Powerliner2 came with exclusively Merc boxes, be it manual or EPS