Leyland Steer - (ERS179):
Too much overhang on the Witts B series but the Montgomery Steer looks perfect. I believe that the ideal platform length for a steer was 22ft. I recall a local firm Nelsons of Arnside had two AEC Mustangs, one they bought new which was correctly proportioned at 22ft deck length and the other one they bought secondhand off John E. Ion an O/D from Milnthorpe and being a greedy bugger John had a 24 ft body fitted to his AEC and it looked bloody awful literally like an 8 wheeler with the rear axle removed. Nelsons carried on running both Mustangs but the one with the 22 ft body always looked the best. Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
Too much overhang on the Witts B series but the Montgomery Steer looks perfect. I believe that the ideal platform length for a steer was 22ft. I recall a local firm Nelsons of Arnside had two AEC Mustangs, one they bought new which was correctly proportioned at 22ft deck length and the other one they bought secondhand off John E. Ion an O/D from Milnthorpe and being a greedy bugger John had a 24 ft body fitted to his AEC and it looked bloody awful literally like an 8 wheeler with the rear axle removed. Nelsons carried on running both Mustangs but the one with the 22 ft body always looked the best. Cheers Bewick.
It’s odd how the old saying ‘if it looks right it is right’ is so often true. Not only with cars and trucks (sorry, lorries) but also ships and aeroplanes. I remember posting on Saviem’s thread (much missed knowledgeable man!) that as a schoolboy I loved the ‘Caravelle’. He replied that he often flew on them when he worked in France and that it was a great aeroplane…
Memories of Kendal (Gentry) and Barrow (working class peasants)…
One of my favourite tales from the late sixties was a trip to Kendal. I can’t actually remember everyone who went, but I went in cousin Chas West’s car along with him and cousin Roly. There were several motor bikes. Among them was Bernie Lee on his Triumph, black leather jacket and all. (Realise you won’t know any of them)
We pulled onto the car park next to the river. Probably stank of fish at the time. Police swarmed around in seconds (you never see one now, do you)
One large Sergeant asked us what was going on. Cousin Chas shrugged and said something like ‘we’ve just come from Barrow for a trip out’
The Sergeant shuddered at the thought of Barrovians in Kendal. ‘How long were you thinking of stopping?’
‘Just have a coffee and we’ll head on back.’
The sergeant nodded and said ‘ok you’ve got 1/2 an hour.’
Bernie was watching quietly and smoking a cig. ‘Whose bike is this?’ Asked the sergeant.
Quick drag, ‘mine’ said Bernie.
‘Where’s your tax disc?’
‘Oh, it fell off on the levens.’
Another drag.
‘I don’t suppose you bothered to stop and pick it up?’ Oozed Sergeant Sarcastic.
Bernie took a long drag on his cigarette.
‘I did actually.’ And theatrically pulled the tax disc from a pocket!
‘You’ve got half an hour!’ Was all the copper said.
Oh how we laughed.
Best wishes to you and yours for Christmas from an old Barrovian.
John.
Barrovians in Kendal !!! 
Perish the thought ! Now that would have the lace curtains twitching in the bay windows !
Anyway John here’s wishing you and your Family a Great Christmas and a Happy and Healthy 2019. Cheers Dennis.
A modified Ford Trader :
Got to admit that I don’t remember ever seeing one of those.
One thing for certain that “Chinese 6” Trader would struggle climbing Shap fully freighted at 18 ton gvw ! Robsons of Carlisle never ran any “modified” Traders IIRC. Cheers Bewick.
Drive a Merc 6w rigid for a feed company. The wagons are loaded at night and we drivers strap up in the morning before leaving the yard.
Sometimes the loaders, who should know better having been told, double stack pallets against the headboard thus potentially overloading the steer axle.
Jokingly said to the Traffic Manager we need “Chinese Sixes” - he looked non-plussed so had to show him a picky 
He was quite interested and asked what disadvantages there were. That got me thinking. Can anyone explain why the chinese six rigids were plated at weights below a conventional 6 wheeler?
I cannot see any reason why, as most 6 wheelers only have a single drive axle - certainly these days.
teech:
Drive a Merc 6w rigid for a feed company. The wagons are loaded at night and we drivers strap up in the morning before leaving the yard.
Sometimes the loaders, who should know better having been told, double stack pallets against the headboard thus potentially overloading the steer axle.
Jokingly said to the Traffic Manager we need “Chinese Sixes” - he looked non-plussed so had to show him a picky
He was quite interested and asked what disadvantages there were. That got me thinking. Can anyone explain why the chinese six rigids were plated at weights below a conventional 6 wheeler?
I cannot see any reason why, as most 6 wheelers only have a single drive axle - certainly these days.
In France, all the few Chinese sixes were plated at 26 tonnes GVW, the same as the conventinal 6x2s.
Froggy55:
teech:
Drive a Merc 6w rigid for a feed company. The wagons are loaded at night and we drivers strap up in the morning before leaving the yard.
Sometimes the loaders, who should know better having been told, double stack pallets against the headboard thus potentially overloading the steer axle.
Jokingly said to the Traffic Manager we need “Chinese Sixes” - he looked non-plussed so had to show him a picky
He was quite interested and asked what disadvantages there were. That got me thinking. Can anyone explain why the chinese six rigids were plated at weights below a conventional 6 wheeler?
I cannot see any reason why, as most 6 wheelers only have a single drive axle - certainly these days.In France, all the few Chinese sixes were plated at 26 tonnes GVW, the same as the conventinal 6x2s.
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Thinking about Britain I wonder what the regulations are now? In the past the Chinese Six always had a weight disadvantage of a ton or so. With heavier duty front axles (my Merc has an 8tonne limit on the steer) and more power from modern engines, lift axles, exhaust brakes etc.etc. I cannot, off the top of my head, think why that differential should still exist.
With the way some 6wheelers seem to be loaded, I can still see the advantages of a Chinese six.
Teech wrote: That got me thinking. Can anyone explain why the chinese six rigids were plated at weights below a conventional 6 wheeler?
I cannot see any reason why, as most 6 wheelers only have a single drive axle - certainly these days.
Not sure if you have read previous posts on this Chinese Six thread but the advantages over the conventional six wheeler was it could carry the same payload without the extra tyre wear of twin wheeled tandem rears whether twin or single drive and front axle overload problems were overcome especially when unloading goods from the rear as on multi drop. They went out of popular use when later axle loading rules changed but were still used by certain business’ which suited their operations especially Brewery work. Franky.
Geordielad:
Teech wrote: That got me thinking. Can anyone explain why the chinese six rigids were plated at weights below a conventional 6 wheeler?
I cannot see any reason why, as most 6 wheelers only have a single drive axle - certainly these days.
Not sure if you have read previous posts on this Chinese Six thread but the advantages over the conventional six wheeler was it could carry the same payload without the extra tyre wear of twin wheeled tandem rears whether twin or single drive and front axle overload problems were overcome especially when unloading goods from the rear as on multi drop. They went out of popular use when later axle loading rules changed but were still used by certain business’ which suited their operations especially Brewery work. Franky.
Unless I’ve got this wrong - until “Chinese Sixes” went out of fashion they were restricted to a GW of 1 or 2 tons less than a conventional 6 wheeler, hence my question as to why and what would pertain today.
I certainly got the point about diminishing loads and that can still be a problem today as the load is removed from the rear overhang (especially if loaders double stack pallets on the headboard).
I have seen loaded lorries dragging their front mudflaps on the tarmac in some circumstances, because yard staff and lazy drivers have just loaded up willy nilly!
Tyre scrub is certainly reduced on twin wheeled tandem rears but most distribution 6wheelers these days have single tyred tags - some even steer.
Teech replied;
Unless I’ve got this wrong - until “Chinese Sixes” went out of fashion they were restricted to a GW of 1 or 2 tons less than a conventional 6 wheeler, hence my question as to why and what would pertain today.
Yes GVW may have been a Ton or so lower but the payload could be the same as the Chinese Six was lighter than the normal six wheeler layout, the same occurred when GUY released their ‘Light 6 and 8’ Warrior 6 and 8 wheelers, by only having a single drive axle and lighter suspension the payload could be as good or even above the normal 6x4 or 8x4 Invincible and other makes with their higher unladen weights, this appealed to many operators just as the Chinese Six did but by the later 60’s and changes to axle loading weights they stopped having an advantage. Today we rarely see any Twin Steer ‘Chinese Six’ Rigid or Tractor layouts but plenty 6x2 with rear or mid lift axles. Franky.
Geordielad:
Teech replied;
Unless I’ve got this wrong - until “Chinese Sixes” went out of fashion they were restricted to a GW of 1 or 2 tons less than a conventional 6 wheeler, hence my question as to why and what would pertain today.Yes GVW may have been a Ton or so lower but the payload could be the same as the Chinese Six was lighter than the normal six wheeler layout, the same occurred when GUY released their ‘Light 6 and 8’ Warrior 6 and 8 wheelers, by only having a single drive axle and lighter suspension the payload could be as good or even above the normal 6x4 or 8x4 Invincible and other makes with their higher unladen weights, this appealed to many operators just as the Chinese Six did but by the later 60’s and changes to axle loading weights they stopped having an advantage. Today we rarely see any Twin Steer ‘Chinese Six’ Rigid or Tractor layouts but plenty 6x2 with rear or mid lift axles. Franky.
Hi Franky, IIRC The twin steer ones were 18 tons gross as to the normal ones being 20 ton gross, Adams as you said had one, Orrell & Brewster one, Alfie Ellis had a few as well,Plus Boistons at Seaton Burn. Larry
Geordielad:
Teech replied;
Unless I’ve got this wrong - until “Chinese Sixes” went out of fashion they were restricted to a GW of 1 or 2 tons less than a conventional 6 wheeler, hence my question as to why and what would pertain today.Yes GVW may have been a Ton or so lower but the payload could be the same as the Chinese Six was lighter than the normal six wheeler layout, the same occurred when GUY released their ‘Light 6 and 8’ Warrior 6 and 8 wheelers, by only having a single drive axle and lighter suspension the payload could be as good or even above the normal 6x4 or 8x4 Invincible and other makes with their higher unladen weights, this appealed to many operators just as the Chinese Six did but by the later 60’s and changes to axle loading weights they stopped having an advantage. Today we rarely see any Twin Steer ‘Chinese Six’ Rigid or Tractor layouts but plenty 6x2 with rear or mid lift axles. Franky.
I get that, but the GVW for a chinese six was 2 tons less and with better materials etc I don’t think that today, in particular, the difference could be made up with a higher payload.
Unless someone can of course contradict that[emoji2]
What intrigues me is that if a company decided to engineer a chinese six would it have to be plated at 26 tonnes or 24?
Certainly some chinese sixes existed in the late 80s into the 90s.
Birds Eye had some Leyland Freighters, Eclipse at Hull had an E series Erf, as did Bassetts of Tittensor. Munros of Rugby had one still running into 2003 and of course Tetley had Ford Cargos.
I was told that one reason Tetleys stuck to Ford D and Cargo chinese sixes later than most was that they felt safer on tight pennine roads but that might be erroneous info. of course.
The last Chinese Six I saw was Corbetts of Malpas hay lorry, probably around 2014 or so and I believe is now preserved but used “in anger” when needs arise.
Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk
Bewick:
airproducts73:
The Chinese-six had simply been a method of distributing weight. I recall using AEC Mustangs owned and operated by Hipwood and Grundy in the 1960s. There had been no powered steering so the mates had to help pull the steering wheels in order to turn corners. When fitted with Michelin tyres, the human strength needed had been increased considerably.There were a couple of other reasons why the Steers were popular in the 50’s/early 60’s, the first one being they were the next step up in unladen weight from a 4 wheeler when the industry was governed by Carrier Licencing and increases in ULW were difficult to come by and IIRC you could only obtain an increase after a number of years and then you had to apply to the LA which always attracted objections from other Operators. The second attraction was a Steer was supposedly the ideal motor to run with a draw bar trailer because of the existing C & U laws at the time. Cheers Bewick.
Just bumping up an explanation I gave on an earlier post as to the main reason why “chinese sixes” were popular in the earlier years although not a lot of them were used to pull trailers it was more of a means to get an easier uplift, and increased payload, to a Hauliers “A” licence on usually a four wheeler. The next step would have been a step up to an eight wheeler after a few years. So this would have been the natural progression but it was fraught with problems mainly from objections by other Hauliers and BRS and BR via the Traffic Commissioners who were “Gods”
Kempston:
A rare one. Nmp0
Well thats a blast from the past, Woods also had a Pop factory too. The owner was Lance Wood and his brother was called Harry IIRC, When Lance passed away the firm was taken over by
Northen Aggregates based at Catterick, I got the haulage of the sand from Hemscott Hill beach at Creswell, It was a good earner until they got a new manager at Catterick who reduced the rates so I kicked the job into touch, But I must say they allways paid on time.I .just moved on to better things
Lawrence Dunbar:
Creswell Beach 1981.0
The Dodge was quite quite old by that time, was it a good truck?