chester1:
I thought I read that sodium hydroxide comes under ADR at any amount I’m sure rog will put me wrong tho
Yeh i think it does as its Class 8 corrosive
Sidevalve:
truckyboy:
If its used in animal feeds.( not forgetting we eat animals too ) i would have no hesitation in taking it …so crack on…its not hazardous. but you would find out when you collect the paperwork and see the trem cards…ha ha good luck.That is not a given mate. Some of the ingredients used in animal (and human) foods do come under ADR; these guys (formerly known to us as Frank Wright of Ashbourne) deliver into us.
By the way TREM cards aren’t normally issued nowadays, it’s called “Instructions in Writing” which is a different document.
Tidy motor! Can’t say I’ve seen them about…
Andrew, if I read correctly, you are pulling a tilt to Calais. I assume it is for onward delivery abroad? If this is the case, then as soon as you get under the trailer, it is subject to ADR regs, and IMDG too, if going on a ferry. Sodium hydroxide in sacks would not satisfy LQ regs as far as packaging is concerned, and am sure there is a 1 litre limit for it anyway. So you will probably have to mark it with placards as CL8, have your ADR, a DGN, instructions in writing and the usual kit for the truck. For confirmation you should either contact your DGSA, for which you must have one if you are carrying hazardous loads, or the manufacturer, using info on the load or delivery notes.
bjd:
un code 1823 adr google it as i cant seem to post a link
This is what ive been reading, and as sidevalve mentions it seems ok if its in under 30kg bags. The ones loaded are 25kg x40 in a bulk agg bag.
Its been mentioned that the TM should have the required info (and yes they should) but our company works in a pretty unique way, its paperwork, hook up and go, there are no route planners , every driver is just left to get on with it and as long as the goods/trailer is delivered and on time they leave you to it. Im an O/D so do my own thing anyway but employed drivers are treated the same way and it works well. The only problem is they take on anything regardless…
Im not due to leave with this load until sunday afternoon so hopefully a definitive answer will cpme my way before then… 
AndrewG:
bjd:
un code 1823 adr google it as i cant seem to post a linkThis is what ive been reading, and as sidevalve mentions it seems ok if its in under 30kg bags. The ones loaded are 25kg x40 in a bulk agg bag.
Its been mentioned that the TM should have the required info (and yes they should) but our company works in a pretty unique way, its paperwork, hook up and go, there are no route planners , every driver is just left to get on with it and as long as the goods/trailer is delivered and on time they leave you to it. Im an O/D so do my own thing anyway but employed drivers are treated the same way and it works well. The only problem is they take on anything regardless…
Im not due to leave with this load until sunday afternoon so hopefully a definitive answer will cpme my way before then…
There is an ADR app you can get its not expensive and it does give you all the info on every ADR load
Janos:
Andrew, if I read correctly, you are pulling a tilt to Calais. I assume it is for onward delivery abroad? If this is the case, then as soon as you get under the trailer, it is subject to ADR regs, and IMDG too, if going on a ferry. Sodium hydroxide in sacks would not satisfy LQ regs as far as packaging is concerned, and am sure there is a 1 litre limit for it anyway. So you will probably have to mark it with placards as CL8, have your ADR, a DGN, instructions in writing and the usual kit for the truck. For confirmation you should either contact your DGSA, for which you must have one if you are carrying hazardous loads, or the manufacturer, using info on the load or delivery notes.
Thanks for that Janos.
Yes, im pulling a tilt to Calais. The load will be taken care of by DSV in one of their trailers for onward journey to the UK,ill reload at Reims for return to Malaga. Ill be on the phone tomorrow to clarify exactly whats going on. Appreciate the info
Might be useful to check the pallets themselves, if you can. Each individual pallet should be marked. Will show LQ if that is what they are. Let us know how you get on. Also, how do you cope with the migrants at Calais?
Janos:
Might be useful to check the pallets themselves, if you can. Each individual pallet should be marked. Will show LQ if that is what they are. Let us know how you get on. Also, how do you cope with the migrants at Calais?
Our place has its own seperate warehouse/repackaging facilities Janos, what theyve done is filled a 1tonne aggregate bag with 40x25kg bags so there wont be any markings other than the contents.
Re the migrants, theres still some roaming the A16 but most have moved on since the major part of the Sangatte camp was flattenned.
I dont enter the port / Trans Manche area though, just do trailer swop and return on an industrial site just outside Calais. Any migrants wanting to climb in the back/under my trailer will just end a very long way inland again… 
Solid Sodium Hydroxide heats up when gotten wet. A single drop in the eye will probably blind in that eye. The liquid on the skin will turn the grease and fat on (and in) that skin into soap - so if you rub a wet place and it’s soapy to the touch - chances are you’re washing your hands with the soap that’s started to be formed your own dissolved hands!
The dry flakes absorb moisture from the air to get wet, but without heating this time as it’s a gradual process.
The solution also reacts with tinfoil and even attacks glass.
I would argue that it’s safest in plastic containers then.
Sealed away in those containers, you’re going to have to go some to put yourself in danger. I can’t see the truck being overturned in a rain storm outside a metals and glass factory whilst the driver hasn’t even been provided with goggles for unloading… 
It isn’t poison though. Whatever effect has not happened straight away - isn’t going to happen. Caustics “dissolve fats and skin oils” rather than “burn and destroy the actual skin” like say, Nitric or Sulphuric Acid concentrated will do. 
Bit more info which may be of interest:
Material Safety Data Sheet
Sodium hydroxide, solid, pellets or beads
Potential Health Effects
Eye: Causes eye burns. May cause chemical conjunctivitis and corneal damage.
Skin: Causes skin burns. May cause deep, penetrating ulcers of the skin. May cause skin rash (in
milder cases), and cold and clammy skin with cyanosis or pale color.
Ingestion: May cause severe and permanent damage to the digestive tract. Causes gastrointestinal
tract burns. May cause perforation of the digestive tract. Causes severe pain, nausea, vomiting,
diarrhea, and shock. May cause corrosion and permanent tissue destruction of the esophagus and
digestive tract. May cause systemic effects.
A substance to be treated with respect (also solutions will attack Aluminium with release of Hydrogen gas)
Please read carefully
AndrewG:
Just been told (by my yard source
Now, i cant find the ltd quantities amount for non ADR. Ive been down this road before with 30,000 litres of orange oil and dont want a repeat.
Any info appreciated, maybe one for Diesel Dave?
Hi Andrew,
Sorry mate, but I’m not making sense of the part I’ve made red.
The one thing I can say for sure at this stage is that if the caustic soda is packed in 25kg bags, then it’s NOT Limited Quantities.
quackers has correctly said that the LQ size for this substance is 1kg.
This means that the (max) 1kg packaging must then be packed into either a box (max 30kg) or a stretch wrapped tray (max 20kg) to take advantage of the LQ rules.
From your other post:
AndrewG:
Overall package size 30kg. These are 25kg bags only theres going to be 1200 of them ie 40x25kg bags in a 1 tonne bulk bag. Apparently these are the agg bags we use for polished stone ect…
Now it’s making more sense to me. 
Many people get confused between the LQ rules and the ‘small load’ rules.
The ‘small load’ rules exemption for this substance is 333kg, so you’re not going to be able to take advantage of that one either.
The ‘small load’ rules have no connection to the LQ rules, they are completely separate notions.
By my reckoning…
1200 bags X 25kg per bag = the 30t you mentioned in your OP.
Therefore, ADR applies in full because 30,000kg is slightly in excess of the ‘freebie’ allowance of 333kg.
The minimum ADR licence required for this job is UN Class 8 in packages.
(= a figure 8 in the ‘other than tanks column’ on the back of an ADR card.)
Another way to look at this is to see how many sacks you can carry without an ADR licence as follows:
The ‘freebie’ allowance of 333kg divided by the sack size of 25kg = you can carry 13 sacks at a time without an ADR licence.
Unless somebody stumps up for an ADR course, you’d need 93 journeys shift the whole load in this way. 
dieseldave:
AndrewG:
Just been told (by my yard source
Now, i cant find the ltd quantities amount for non ADR. Ive been down this road before with 30,000 litres of orange oil and dont want a repeat.
Any info appreciated, maybe one for Diesel Dave?Hi Andrew,
Sorry mate, but I’m not making sense of the part I’ve made red.
The one thing I can say for sure at this stage is that if the caustic soda is packed in 25kg bags, then it’s NOT Limited Quantities.
quackers has correctly said that the LQ size for this substance is 1kg.
This means that the (max) 1kg packaging must then be packed into either a box (max 30kg) or a stretch wrapped tray (max 20kg) to take advantage of the LQ rules.From your other post:
AndrewG:
Overall package size 30kg. These are 25kg bags only theres going to be 1200 of them ie 40x25kg bags in a 1 tonne bulk bag. Apparently these are the agg bags we use for polished stone ect…Now it’s making more sense to me.
Many people get confused between the LQ rules and the ‘small load’ rules.
The ‘small load’ rules exemption for this substance is 333kg, so you’re not going to be able to take advantage of that one either.The ‘small load’ rules have no connection to the LQ rules, they are completely separate notions.
By my reckoning…
1200 bags X 25kg per bag = the 30t you mentioned in your OP.
Therefore, ADR applies in full because 30,000kg is slightly in excess of the ‘freebie’ allowance of 333kg.
The minimum ADR licence required for this job is UN Class 8 in packages.
(= a figure 8 in the ‘other than tanks column’ on the back of an ADR card.)
The ‘freebie’ allowance of 333kg divided by the sack size of 25kg = you can carry 13 sacks at a time without an ADR licence.
Thanks for that Dave, the definitive answer i was looking for
Place i sub for is the best ive ever worked and wouldnt go anywhere else but…theres rule bending and then theres going OTT.
They plead ignorance and just see what they can get away with, the grey areas is their favourite. Needless to say i wont be taking it.
Yesterday i actually booked myself on an ADR course for December. This is twice now, first the orange oil and now Caustic Soda.
Thanks for the info mate, much appreciated
AndrewG:
dieseldave:
AndrewG:
Just been told (by my yard source
Now, i cant find the ltd quantities amount for non ADR. Ive been down this road before with 30,000 litres of orange oil and dont want a repeat.
Any info appreciated, maybe one for Diesel Dave?Hi Andrew,
Sorry mate, but I’m not making sense of the part I’ve made red.
The one thing I can say for sure at this stage is that if the caustic soda is packed in 25kg bags, then it’s NOT Limited Quantities.
quackers has correctly said that the LQ size for this substance is 1kg.
This means that the (max) 1kg packaging must then be packed into either a box (max 30kg) or a stretch wrapped tray (max 20kg) to take advantage of the LQ rules.From your other post:
AndrewG:
Overall package size 30kg. These are 25kg bags only theres going to be 1200 of them ie 40x25kg bags in a 1 tonne bulk bag. Apparently these are the agg bags we use for polished stone ect…Now it’s making more sense to me.
Many people get confused between the LQ rules and the ‘small load’ rules.
The ‘small load’ rules exemption for this substance is 333kg, so you’re not going to be able to take advantage of that one either.The ‘small load’ rules have no connection to the LQ rules, they are completely separate notions.
By my reckoning…
1200 bags X 25kg per bag = the 30t you mentioned in your OP.
Therefore, ADR applies in full because 30,000kg is slightly in excess of the ‘freebie’ allowance of 333kg.
The minimum ADR licence required for this job is UN Class 8 in packages.
(= a figure 8 in the ‘other than tanks column’ on the back of an ADR card.)
The ‘freebie’ allowance of 333kg divided by the sack size of 25kg = you can carry 13 sacks at a time without an ADR licence.
Thanks for that Dave, the definitive answer i was looking for
Place i sub for is the best ive ever worked and wouldnt go anywhere else but…theres rule bending and then theres going OTT.
They plead ignorance and just see what they can get away with, the grey areas is their favourite. Needless to say i wont be taking it.
Yesterday i actually booked myself on an ADR course for December. This is twice now, first the orange oil and now Caustic Soda.
Thanks for the info mate, much appreciated
From my time doing tanks in France I can assure you Andrew, that orange plates are a Gendarme magnet. And we all know that once they’ve decided to have a chat they’ll likely want to make it worth their while. All the kit and papers of course, plus 80 on m-way 70 on national roads may “cramp your style” somewhat? At my present company we don’t do any haz as no one is paying enough extra for it.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Franglais:
plus 80 on m-way 70 on national roads may “cramp your style” somewhat?
All those…
Tunnels you usually rumble through suddenly become all the way up, around and down the mountain/village/nursery school within 20 km radius/lentil factory.
In for a penny…
To those who answered my post…I stand corrected…as they say you learn something new every day…
Franglais:
From my time doing tanks in France I can assure you Andrew, that orange plates are a Gendarme magnet. And we all know that once they’ve decided to have a chat they’ll likely want to make it worth their while. All the kit and papers of course, plus 80 on m-way 70 on national roads may “cramp your style” somewhat? At my present company we don’t do any haz as no one is paying enough extra for it.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Those limits would def ‘cramp my style’ mate 
Tbh, i’d much rather just keep to the aggregates we carry which is our mainstay but being general these type of loads do crop up now and then. No one else likes doing Malaga/ Calais which is why it had my name on it but apparently theyve persuaded one of their ADR employed drivers to take it now. As previously mentioned ive just booked myself onto an ADR course but actually having second thoughts thinking of the consequences…
AndrewG:
Franglais:
From my time doing tanks in France I can assure you Andrew, that orange plates are a Gendarme magnet. And we all know that once they’ve decided to have a chat they’ll likely want to make it worth their while. All the kit and papers of course, plus 80 on m-way 70 on national roads may “cramp your style” somewhat? At my present company we don’t do any haz as no one is paying enough extra for it.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Those limits would def ‘cramp my style’ mate [emoji38] Tbh, i’d much rather just keep to the aggregates we carry which is our mainstay but being general these type of loads do crop up now and then. No one else likes doing Malaga/ Calais which is why it had my name on it but apparently theyve persuaded one of their ADR employed drivers to take it now. As previously mentioned ive just booked myself onto an ADR course but actually having second thoughts thinking of the consequences…
And as youavingalarf says your routes may be limited too. You’ll know better than us the way the Spanish are about haz running on CN instead of Autopistas.
And never mind the kittens, what about those cuddly brown bears near your habitual Pyrenees crossing? Turn one of them into a “bleach blonde” with your load and you’ll never hear the end of it.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Franglais:
AndrewG:
Franglais:
From my time doing tanks in France I can assure you Andrew, that orange plates are a Gendarme magnet. And we all know that once they’ve decided to have a chat they’ll likely want to make it worth their while. All the kit and papers of course, plus 80 on m-way 70 on national roads may “cramp your style” somewhat? At my present company we don’t do any haz as no one is paying enough extra for it.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Those limits would def ‘cramp my style’ mate [emoji38] Tbh, i’d much rather just keep to the aggregates we carry which is our mainstay but being general these type of loads do crop up now and then. No one else likes doing Malaga/ Calais which is why it had my name on it but apparently theyve persuaded one of their ADR employed drivers to take it now. As previously mentioned ive just booked myself onto an ADR course but actually having second thoughts thinking of the consequences…
And as youavingalarf says your routes may be limited too. You’ll know better than us the way the Spanish are about haz running on CN instead of Autopistas.
And never mind the kittens, what about those cuddly brown bears near your habitual Pyrenees crossing? Turn one of them into a “bleach blonde” with your load and you’ll never hear the end of it.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Yep, bears, puppies and kittens all top of the list…i stand on the brakes for all of them…