Muckles it’s nice to see someone that takes it seriously.
I agree though it is a frightening thought but in a way as a human race we have brought it on ourselves.
Technology is way ahead of what most realise but looking from a positive view lives will be saved on the road and that alone is fantastic.
UKtramp:
TiredAndEmotional:
I can agree with everything else you say but not this. We live in a world of declining employment and resources coupled to an ever increasing population. Big business has always seized any opportunity to reduce “costs” with absolutely no regard for any negative impact on human beens…do you see what I did there?
Yes I certainly do see what you did there
I did care about the miners, I cared about the destruction of communities and proper employed jobs and not just mining, to be replaced with individuals in competition against each other for far worse jobs in terms of security of employment and pay.
A cynical person might believe that destruction was part of the plan, to break to force of people standing together and pit them against each other made them far more easy to control and putting them in debt by convincing them that property ownership was the dream they wanted kept them in control even more.
And as I’ve said before on this thread and at the risk of repeating myself, it’s not just drivers whose jobs are under threat from automation, so it’s not just a few jobs that will disappear completely or require far less people. Many jobs are being targeted including many professionally qualified and what is known as white collar jobs, so this time it’s not just us “Grunts” that will see our jobs go.
However as of yet we keep hearing from those pushing the automation agenda don’t worry it will produce new jobs, but there is scant information on what these new jobs and what quality they will be, as other have said automation is being pushed by our economic system, a system that is really about short term gain and survival, it cares little for those displaced by it’s activities or to provide them with new jobs.
If you believe history always shows that new jobs will be created, there are also other lessons from history, when you get great disparity between a small upper class with wealth and power and a large class with little wealth or power, especially is that includes a former artisan or middle class, then you laid the groundwork for revolution. When you have high unemployment and pressure on housing and social services, outsiders become a threat, a scapegoat for all the problems and we’ve seen where that leads.
muckles:
UKtramp:
TiredAndEmotional:
I can agree with everything else you say but not this. We live in a world of declining employment and resources coupled to an ever increasing population. Big business has always seized any opportunity to reduce “costs” with absolutely no regard for any negative impact on human beens…do you see what I did there?Yes I certainly do see what you did there
I did care about the miners, I cared about the destruction of communities and proper employed jobs and not just mining, to be replaced with individuals in competition against each other for far worse jobs in terms of security of employment and pay.
A cynical person might believe that destruction was part of the plan, to break to force of people standing together and pit them against each other made them far more easy to control and putting them in debt by convincing them that property ownership was the dream they wanted kept them in control even more.And as I’ve said before on this thread and at the risk of repeating myself, it’s not just drivers whose jobs are under threat from automation, so it’s not just a few jobs that will disappear completely or require far less people. Many jobs are being targeted including many professionally qualified and what is known as white collar jobs, so this time it’s not just us “Grunts” that will see our jobs go.
However as of yet we keep hearing from those pushing the automation agenda don’t worry it will produce new jobs, but there is scant information on what these new jobs and what quality they will be, as other have said automation is being pushed by our economic system, a system that is really about short term gain and survival, it cares little for those displaced by it’s activities or to provide them with new jobs.If you believe history always shows that new jobs will be created, there are also other lessons from history, when you get great disparity between a small upper class with wealth and power and a large class with little wealth or power, especially is that includes a former artisan or middle class, then you laid the groundwork for revolution. When you have high unemployment and pressure on housing and social services, outsiders become a threat, a scapegoat for all the problems and we’ve seen where that leads.
Quote of the year right there.
Dr Damon:
Muckles it’s nice to see someone that takes it seriously.
I agree though it is a frightening thought but in a way as a human race we have brought it on ourselves.
Technology is way ahead of what most realise but looking from a positive view lives will be saved on the road and that alone is fantastic.
Like I said I find the technology both scary and exciting, I’m a technophile and have worked for many companies pushing the boundaries of technology over the years, ever since I worked a digital cartographer in the early 90’s and we worked on developing Sat-Navs and terrain mapping for use in military helicopters and a few other projects, then working in motorsport and in the last couple of years I’ve worked alongside companies who mix motorsport with developing automotive technology, although I’m basically still a truck driver, I get to chat to the engineers and technicians and they never seem to mind explaining stuff to a layman like myself
Agreed there is the advantage of reduced casualties on the road, but if the final cost is mass unemployment and social unrest, or worse if you read Stephen Hawking’s interview on AI, you’ve got to wonder if it’s worth it?
So I’m now waiting for those companies and the politicians who want to push the technology to show us how those millions displaced by the technology will be able to earn the money to pay for the goods that automation will make and move.
People comeon here and givea opinion about everything except how to look after the industry you work in now
All experts at the waffle but can’t get it together and make conditions inprove in the here and now
Don’t be worrying about the future you will be dead before most of these things go into full mode
I don’t see a difference between now and the future we are treated like muck now and will be in the future
Franglais:
TiredAndEmotional:
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
All this autonomy is very well, but removing humans in the name of efficency is only going to destroy the current business model. If no one has a job, they have no money. So who will be able to afford these consumer goods?Automation has been going on since Henry ford built his cars on a production line, factories have been automated to save on labour, repetitive jobs etc. People will find alternate employment away from the automated jobs that are now done as they always have. Driving is no different, as cars, trucks make progress in technology and software (artificial intelligence) is tested and perfected the drivers as we know them will dissapear, it is a fact that this will indeed happen. I have been involved in many automation projects within cold stores and have witnessed the leap from people saying that will never happen. We saw the end of stolkers years ago and now there is no such job. I have seen engineers been made redundant in the name of technology that automates self diagnosing compressors and components which all can be fixed quickly through software, or send an engineer out from a remote site that used to have 12 engineers reduced to two. Why would you think driving automation is any different, just because you don’t like the idea of losing your job. It is not science fiction, it is a reality and it is a lot further advanced than some dare or want to imagine.
I can agree with everything else you say but not this. We live in a world of declining employment and resources coupled to an ever increasing population. Big business has always seized any opportunity to reduce “costs” with absolutely no regard for any negative impact on human beens…do you see what I did there?
Agree with you here. We are on the point of a big change.
Increasing population, is a major issue. Resources of water and land, and global warming will all play an increasing part in the future.
But automation is coming down the line far quicker.
I’m no economist but the system we have at the moment won’t survive with increasing automation and decreasing employment. Politicians who stand back and say “let the market decide” are fools. The market is made of companies designed to make profit for themselves. Companies are for short term gain. They are not there for the good of society as a whole. A company that automates it’s production will gain in the short term, by decreasing costs, and win an advantage over competitors. It must be the first, it must do this or be wiped out. It cannot think further into the future. Managers of limited companies are ousted by investors of their short term performance is lacking.
So we need politicians (not often I say that) to make a brave long term choice. And our system is not set up for that. As directors are fired, so are politicians who look long term not reelected.
But what we need stays the same. A longer term view of the future.
Maybe the idea of a living wage for all? Everyone to receive a decent income for doing. . . nothing. That’ll go down like a lead balloon with many here, but stay with me.
The way it’s going we could have a society where the majority are unemployed or held by mass unemployment levels in unpleasant badly paid jobs while a few highly paid techies and managers get all the money?
Never happen? Probably not.
But my point is it’ll need something radical to prevent this.
Hence, a living wage for all. You want extra? Then you work. I honestly am not the pessimist some have me as- I reckon lots of people enjoy being useful members of society. Maybe not being forced to get up a 4 on a Monday morning to feed your family but doing something to constructively fill your days.
This post is too long already, so apologies.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
The idea of a living wage for all is not a new idea, it’s what the Romans did.
The citizens of Rome had no need to work as slaves did the work (robots) so the state paid them to do nothing. This kept them happy with the state and games at the Coliseum kept them amused. By doing it this way the rulers made it easier for themselves as dissent was kept to minimal levels.
I recall as a kid we were told computers and automation would mean we all worked less and had more leisure time.
Waiting !
muckles:
Dr Damon:
Muckles it’s nice to see someone that takes it seriously.
I agree though it is a frightening thought but in a way as a human race we have brought it on ourselves.
Technology is way ahead of what most realise but looking from a positive view lives will be saved on the road and that alone is fantastic.Like I said I find the technology both scary and exciting, I’m a technophile and have worked for many companies pushing the boundaries of technology over the years, ever since I worked a digital cartographer in the early 90’s and we worked on developing Sat-Navs and terrain mapping for use in military helicopters and a few other projects, then working in motorsport and in the last couple of years I’ve worked alongside companies who mix motorsport with developing automotive technology, although I’m basically still a truck driver, I get to chat to the engineers and technicians and they never seem to mind explaining stuff to a layman like myself
Agreed there is the advantage of reduced casualties on the road, but if the final cost is mass unemployment and social unrest, or worse if you read Stephen Hawking’s interview on AI, you’ve got to wonder if it’s worth it?
So I’m now waiting for those companies and the politicians who want to push the technology to show us how those millions displaced by the technology will be able to earn the money to pay for the goods that automation will make and move.
Really interesting that you take it so seriously and obviously see the advantages
and disadvantages.
Must have a proper chat when I have more time.
Cheers
Damon.
nightline:
People comeon here and givea opinion about everything except how to look after the industry you work in now
All experts at the waffle but can’t get it together and make conditions inprove in the here and now
Don’t be worrying about the future you will be dead before most of these things go into full mode
I don’t see a difference between now and the future we are treated like muck now and will be in the future
The problem night line is some of these opinions are 100% correct.
There are a lot of big changes coming and the biggest majority will see them happening. We are talking within the next decade believe it or not.
IronEddie:
“At the moment, the project is designed to “steer vehicles from the production line out to a collection point to await further transport.” However, according to Semcon, the system can also be adapted to streamline other parts of the logistics chain like moving vehicles onto trucks, trains or ships.”Let’s not blow this out of proportion. They’re not talking about car transporters driving themselves or even the cars driving themselves to the show room or customer. Car transporter truckers have got a job for a while yet.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
as someone who works in vehicle manufacturing directly, I can say this is nothing more than a pipe dream even at the first level 
its absolute mayhem in the factory end of line, with cars flying about on the limiter all over the place.
maga:
IronEddie:
“At the moment, the project is designed to “steer vehicles from the production line out to a collection point to await further transport.” However, according to Semcon, the system can also be adapted to streamline other parts of the logistics chain like moving vehicles onto trucks, trains or ships.”Let’s not blow this out of proportion. They’re not talking about car transporters driving themselves or even the cars driving themselves to the show room or customer. Car transporter truckers have got a job for a while yet.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
as someone who works in vehicle manufacturing directly, I can say this is nothing more than a pipe dream even at the first level
its absolute mayhem in the factory end of line, with cars flying about on the limiter all over the place.
maga
may I ask what manufacturer you work with directly?
Or if you don’t want to say can you tell whether it is cars or trucks?
Also are we talking about in the UK?
AndieHyde:
Ah the Luddite movement.
Difference there back in the day, this cutting edge tech only served to increase production many times over and with a ready available market to the whole world who were clamering for these products, business was good and expansion was rapid.Modern day Globalmegacorps are looking to cut out inefficient humans with greater autonomy usually to increase profit margins but the downside of this is undermining its own consumer base and inadvertantly causing a shrinking market.
The concept of the infinite growth model, while it has been great for the last 60 years or so, is fundamentaly flawed as nothing can keep expanding for ever. We are on the downward slope of the bell curve right now and coupled with rampant greed that has been allowed to flourish for the last 25 years, something will have to give.
Maybe old Ned was ahead of his time, but the power can be turned back to the people. Machines can be broken, the human spirit is not so easy.
Well said.
Franglais:
TiredAndEmotional:
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
All this autonomy is very well, but removing humans in the name of efficency is only going to destroy the current business model. If no one has a job, they have no money. So who will be able to afford these consumer goods?Automation has been going on since Henry ford built his cars on a production line, factories have been automated to save on labour, repetitive jobs etc. People will find alternate employment away from the automated jobs that are now done as they always have. Driving is no different, as cars, trucks make progress in technology and software (artificial intelligence) is tested and perfected the drivers as we know them will dissapear, it is a fact that this will indeed happen. I have been involved in many automation projects within cold stores and have witnessed the leap from people saying that will never happen. We saw the end of stolkers years ago and now there is no such job. I have seen engineers been made redundant in the name of technology that automates self diagnosing compressors and components which all can be fixed quickly through software, or send an engineer out from a remote site that used to have 12 engineers reduced to two. Why would you think driving automation is any different, just because you don’t like the idea of losing your job. It is not science fiction, it is a reality and it is a lot further advanced than some dare or want to imagine.
I can agree with everything else you say but not this. We live in a world of declining employment and resources coupled to an ever increasing population. Big business has always seized any opportunity to reduce “costs” with absolutely no regard for any negative impact on human beens…do you see what I did there?
Agree with you here. We are on the point of a big change.
Increasing population, is a major issue. Resources of water and land, and global warming will all play an increasing part in the future.
But automation is coming down the line far quicker.
I’m no economist but the system we have at the moment won’t survive with increasing automation and decreasing employment. Politicians who stand back and say “let the market decide” are fools. The market is made of companies designed to make profit for themselves. Companies are for short term gain. They are not there for the good of society as a whole. A company that automates it’s production will gain in the short term, by decreasing costs, and win an advantage over competitors. It must be the first, it must do this or be wiped out. It cannot think further into the future. Managers of limited companies are ousted by investors of their short term performance is lacking.
So we need politicians (not often I say that) to make a brave long term choice. And our system is not set up for that. As directors are fired, so are politicians who look long term not reelected.
But what we need stays the same. A longer term view of the future.
Maybe the idea of a living wage for all? Everyone to receive a decent income for doing. . . nothing. That’ll go down like a lead balloon with many here, but stay with me.
The way it’s going we could have a society where the majority are unemployed or held by mass unemployment levels in unpleasant badly paid jobs while a few highly paid techies and managers get all the money?
Never happen? Probably not.
But my point is it’ll need something radical to prevent this.
Hence, a living wage for all. You want extra? Then you work. I honestly am not the pessimist some have me as- I reckon lots of people enjoy being useful members of society. Maybe not being forced to get up a 4 on a Monday morning to feed your family but doing something to constructively fill your days.
This post is too long already, so apologies.
I rather think the ptb have this factored in with agenda 21 and a nice world war they’re currently engineering.Perfect business model for a world reboot and long in the planning.Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
muckles:
UKtramp:
TiredAndEmotional:
I can agree with everything else you say but not this. We live in a world of declining employment and resources coupled to an ever increasing population. Big business has always seized any opportunity to reduce “costs” with absolutely no regard for any negative impact on human beens…do you see what I did there?Yes I certainly do see what you did there
I did care about the miners, I cared about the destruction of communities and proper employed jobs and not just mining, to be replaced with individuals in competition against each other for far worse jobs in terms of security of employment and pay.
A cynical person might believe that destruction was part of the plan, to break to force of people standing together and pit them against each other made them far more easy to control and putting them in debt by convincing them that property ownership was the dream they wanted kept them in control even more.And as I’ve said before on this thread and at the risk of repeating myself, it’s not just drivers whose jobs are under threat from automation, so it’s not just a few jobs that will disappear completely or require far less people. Many jobs are being targeted including many professionally qualified and what is known as white collar jobs, so this time it’s not just us “Grunts” that will see our jobs go.
However as of yet we keep hearing from those pushing the automation agenda don’t worry it will produce new jobs, but there is scant information on what these new jobs and what quality they will be, as other have said automation is being pushed by our economic system, a system that is really about short term gain and survival, it cares little for those displaced by it’s activities or to provide them with new jobs.If you believe history always shows that new jobs will be created, there are also other lessons from history, when you get great disparity between a small upper class with wealth and power and a large class with little wealth or power, especially is that includes a former artisan or middle class, then you laid the groundwork for revolution. When you have high unemployment and pressure on housing and social services, outsiders become a threat, a scapegoat for all the problems and we’ve seen where that leads.
With you in a way on the mining thing as i hail from collier stock missen.but jesus if you could forsee a future at your birth involving trudging into the bowels of the earth hacking at the coal seems then probably succumbing to dreadful bronchial disease,would you really want to crack on??jesus id be crawling straight back to the mothership pretty lively.
Franglais:
Hence, a living wage for all. You want extra? Then you work. I honestly am not the pessimist some have meSent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Not a pessimist but a realist
Dr Damon:
maga:
IronEddie:
“At the moment, the project is designed to “steer vehicles from the production line out to a collection point to await further transport.” However, according to Semcon, the system can also be adapted to streamline other parts of the logistics chain like moving vehicles onto trucks, trains or ships.”Let’s not blow this out of proportion. They’re not talking about car transporters driving themselves or even the cars driving themselves to the show room or customer. Car transporter truckers have got a job for a while yet.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
as someone who works in vehicle manufacturing directly, I can say this is nothing more than a pipe dream even at the first level
its absolute mayhem in the factory end of line, with cars flying about on the limiter all over the place.
maga
may I ask what manufacturer you work with directly?
Or if you don’t want to say can you tell whether it is cars or trucks?
Also are we talking about in the UK?
not with but for, I don’t have anything to do with transport now bar the odd saturday to keep my hand in.
I’m talking about Jaguar Landrover and yes in the UK.
maga:
Dr Damon:
maga:
IronEddie:
“At the moment, the project is designed to “steer vehicles from the production line out to a collection point to await further transport.” However, according to Semcon, the system can also be adapted to streamline other parts of the logistics chain like moving vehicles onto trucks, trains or ships.”Let’s not blow this out of proportion. They’re not talking about car transporters driving themselves or even the cars driving themselves to the show room or customer. Car transporter truckers have got a job for a while yet.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
as someone who works in vehicle manufacturing directly, I can say this is nothing more than a pipe dream even at the first level
its absolute mayhem in the factory end of line, with cars flying about on the limiter all over the place.
maga
may I ask what manufacturer you work with directly?
Or if you don’t want to say can you tell whether it is cars or trucks?
Also are we talking about in the UK?not with but for, I don’t have anything to do with transport now bar the odd saturday to keep my hand in.
I’m talking about Jaguar Landrover and yes in the UK.
Ah OK thanks.I am sure you are glad you are out of transport! Things ain’t getting any better as I am sure you know.
Back to the main subject and I can tell you autonomous vehicles are no pipe dream.
Just look at the sudden changes we have seen in the past especially with the likes of Jaguar.
Jaguar/Land Rover are well aware of what is happening even although everything seems busy and normal.
Have you heard Jim Ratcliffe’s idea for the new Defender?
Dr Damon:
Back to the main subject and I can tell you autonomous vehicles are no pipe dream.
Just look at the sudden changes we have seen in the past especially with the likes of Jaguar.
Jaguar/Land Rover are well aware of what is happening
Let’s get this right.You think that the future is to make a massive sector of the economy,in the form of those employed as drivers in the road transport industry,among others in numerous other sectors of the economy,redundant.While the car manufacturing industry intends to no longer be interested in the car ‘driving’ enthusiast market.What could possibly go wrong. 
As for Jaguar the only ‘changes’ which I’ve seen is the predictably rocketing values of proper classic drivers’ Jaguars as opposed to the collapsing residual values of the more recent automated and resulting fiendishly complicated,and relatively soul less to drive offerings.I’m guessing that your control freak agenda is the removal of the continuation of the freedom of choice to drive ‘proper’ cars in that regard,to stop us all voting with our wallets.That’s assuming we’re even left with any incomes after those with your ideas have trashed the economy.
Which is what this self destructive agenda is really all about.IE the type of nightmarish control freak world which has been the subject of so many science fiction movies like Demolition Man.In which the techno nerds intend to zb on everyone else to justify their own jobs and for their own selfish ends. 
Santa:
I seem to remember learning about a bunch of weavers in Lancashire who tried to stop the introduction of automatic machines in the mills because they were afraid of losing their jobs. Fella called Ned Ludd was their leader I think.
The comparison with the Luddites misses the point that their issue was the erroneous idea that all mechanisation was bad.As opposed that now which is all about who controls the machines and the amount of human input if any as part of that.It’s a bit like the introduction of CNC machines making many previously just about tolerable factory jobs using manually operated machine tools,so bleedin soul destroyingly boring that employers could no longer find enough humans required to operate them.With the result that wage costs in that sector then actually increased.IE less skilled machine minders actually being payed more than previously more skilled machinists just because of the sheer boredom of the job.
In addition to which is the problem that there is a point where automation really can remove more jobs from the economy than it creates thereby eventually making itself redundant.That was the bit which the Luddites unknowingly actually got right. 
Who is going to want to spend a load of money on a driverless car in the first place
bob96:
Who is going to want to spend a load of money on a driverless car in the first place
OOh PULEEEZE