Haymarket,London 1964.
Leyland Fleetline (Formerly Daimler Fleetline), KJD 14P, new to London Transport in 1976,
seen here having been sold to Wilts & Dorset in 1983, passing Cemetery Junction on route 133
from Bournemouth to WimborneâŚin DEANB County. 
Regards, Ray.
Maidstone Corporation ran arguably the smallest Trolleybus network in the country.Four former Maidstone Corporation trolleybuses still survive but 26 YKO is the only motorbus. Maidstone was unusual in choosing an Ochre and Cream livery for its PSV and the slightly less popular Massey bodywork for it motorbuses.
Massey bodywork was also chosen for the later Atlantean, which featured a revised livery with the Ochre being replaced with light blue. The picture of the Atlantean and Sunbeam trolleybus is at the Fountain Inn Barming, incidentally the site of the current sinkhole which is causing so much traffic disruption on the A26 Tonbridge rd. The black & white picture has the bus heading the wrong way along Bishopâs Way for its Loose destination. It has possibly been turned short at the Palace avenue bus station stop opposite the Archbisopâs Palace and will turn right up the High street at these lights and return via Mill st. The photographer is standing on the âoldâ Maidstone Bridge which was the scene of notorious traffic hold ups in the '50s and '60s as all A20 traffic between London and Dover/Folkestone had to wind it way over the bridge and through the town. There are passages in Ian Flemingâs Moonraker book about James Bondâs journeys from London to the Dover/Deal area (Kingswood) which involve: the traffic jams in Maidstone, an ancient Alfa Romeo being forced off the road at Lenham and a Bowaterâs Mammoth Major having its ropes cut on Charing Hill which resulted In Bondâs Bentley being wrecked by the cascading newsprint reels.
Ray Smyth:
I refer to the recent comments regarding buses and coaches, and I think that
a fair number of Trucknet members and Guest readers will have driven buses,
coaches, and lorries during their driving careers. I hope this new thread takes
off, and I look forward to some interesting pictures and informative remarks.I passed my PSV Driving test on this Leyland PD1, fleet No. 34 of Wigan Corporation
in October 1966, but wasnât keen on mainly short trips to local areas, so I decided
to go back on the lorries. Fleet No. 34 is still around, and lives near Halifax.Regards, Ray Smyth
Excellent idea Ray - it had occurred to me to kick off a thread like yours in the past, but I thought the mods wouldnât be best pleased what with this being a forum for wagons. Iâve driven buses though ânot in angerâ, but Iâve long had an interest in them and could pick an 0.680 RE from a Gardner at a hundred paces on a wet Wednesday evening in Droitwich.
oiltreader:
Wonder where this started service, now resting at Coombs, Vancouver Island, British Columbia.Oily
Hey Oily
I did a few minutes interwebs sleuthing and AFAICT itâs probably ACH 646, an AEC Regent II ex-Trent Motor Traction. Apparently this bus has sat right there since the early 80s. (source: flickr.com/photos/cessna152 ⌠5513283031)
Bolton Corporation Leyland PD3 with East Lancs body, new in 1961, picks its way carefully along ungritted roads in winter 1967 at a guess, as this particular junction from the new Farnworth by-pass, A666, wasnât opened until 1966. The bus is on the original A666 leading up to Moses Gate, with Smithâs Road to Darcy Lever to the right. The 43 Service was from Bolton to Farnworth Black Horse. It was a dedicated photographer who would stand at the roadside on a morning like this.
Salford City Transport under the legendary stewardship of Charles Baroth ran what was arguably the smartest municipal bus fleet in the country, belying the industrial environment of Salford (âDirty Old Townâ by Ewan McColl). 462 was a Daimler CVG6 with Metro-Cammell body, one of 195 of the same bought by Salford in the 1950s. It was on the Manchester to Bolton Number 8 route, a joint service with Bolton Corporation, LUT, and one Manchester Corporation bus a day. The route was limited stop but sharply timed, 11 miles of heavy traffic urban roads in 38 minutes. A ride on one of these Daimlers was often a jerky experience as drivers rushed the pre-select gear changing in an attempt to keep to time. Here it was virtually at journeyâs end in Trinity Street, Bolton, with just a few hundred yards to go to the terminus in Thynne Street. What was unusual and possibly unique about the appearance of Salfordâs bus fleet under Baroth?
As an attempt to âbridge the gapâ between wagons and buses, there have been quite a few successful cross-breeding experiments. One obvious one is the number of removals wagons (âI canât spell âpantechniconââ as some wag on here recently wrote) based on bus/ coach chassis. Carl Williams is one expert whoâs forgotten more about this than Iâll ever know, but I can remember seeing quite a few integral pantechs based on Bedford SB3/ SB5 coach chassis, as well as various Commers and Ford R-series chassis. If you wanted something flashy, you could even get Marsden or VanPlan to do something bespoke on a Bristol LH like Silver Cross used to do (this one has seen better days)
Then there were engines and gearboxes that both HGV and PSV shared. Easy examples: Gardner 5LW, 6LW, 6LX; Leyland 0.600, 0.680, 0.500/ 0.510, 0.400; Bedford 330, 466, 500 diesels and many petrol 6âs; Ford slant-6 (was that the Dover??) diesel; Percy 6.354; even â â â â â â â V6 (though they didnât last long).
And while Iâm rambling, I think itâs worth remembering that many British truck makersâs success in export markets in the 50âs, 60âs and 70âs was due in no small part to the success of their bus/ coach chassis. The Leyland Royal Tiger/ Worldmaster got exported all over the place, from Europe to Africa to the flar-fung colonies of HK, Singapore, Oz and NZ, and many of these distant countries went on to buy Leopards and Atlanteans (and later Metrobuses and Olympians and Dennis Dominators). Itâs a shame BL rather buggered it up when it took over Leyland Truck & Bus, but Iâll leave it there before certain parties chime in.
gingerfold:
A ride on one of these Daimlers was often a jerky experience as drivers rushed the pre-select gear changing in an attempt to keep to time.
GF - would you like to enlighten me (and maybe others) on pre-select boxes? Were they always found in buses and never lorries? Was the one in the CVG6 the same as in later Leyland buses (Iâm thinking of Leopards and Atlanteans)?
Hi ParkRoyal. Thank you for your comments regarding me starting this thread. I refer to your query regarding
âPre-Selectâ gears. Leyland Leopards and PD3s were pneumocyclic 2 pedal buses, whereas " Pre-Select" buses
had 3 pedals. To drive offâŚEngine on tickover, without touching any pedals, put gear lever into 1st position,
press âClutchâ pedal down and let it return, the bus will not move until you give it some throttle.
Now this may sound daft, but as the bus was moving away in 1st gear, you could âPre -Selectâ 2nd gear before
you needed it, and so on through 3rd & 4th. I remember as a young lad in the early 1950s in Liverpool,
travelling on AEC and Daimler buses, and watching the driver performing the above. Even as the bus was slowing
down to stop, the driver could be seen âPre-Selectingâ 1st gear for setting off from the next bus stop.
In the early 1950s, Liverpools large fleet of trams were being reduced, and tram drivers began to learn to drive
buses, for some it wasnât a problem, for others, gearsticks and crash boxes were difficult, but âPre-Selectâ buses
were much easier to learn. Kind Regards, Ray Smyth.
" What was unusual and possibly unique about the appearance of Salfordâs bus fleet under Baroth? "
There were a couple of things that reflected his pride in the appearance of the fleet ( though neither is unique ). He would not have exterior advertisements and he had extended winding handles to change the destination blinds, so the conductor did not damage the paintwork by climbing up !
Salford had a bus with full dual control which was very unusual ( and possibly unique ? ) back in the late 50s.
Itâs probably a Frederick Road canteen myth, but it is said if a bus broke down, he would not allow it to be towed in till after dark !!
Regards. John.
Ray Smyth:
Leyland Leopards and PD3s were pneumocyclic 2 pedal buses, whereas " Pre-Select" buses
had 3 pedals. To drive offâŚEngine on tickover, without touching any pedals, put gear lever into 1st position,
press âClutchâ pedal down and let it return, the bus will not move until you give it some throttle.
Now this may sound daft, but as the bus was moving away in 1st gear, you could âPre -Selectâ 2nd gear before
you needed it, and so on through 3rd & 4th.
Thanks Ray, I was getting my gearboxes in a muddle.
To clear up my remaining confusion, was there any difference between a pneumocyclic box (Leopard, Atlantean) and the SCG type that Bristol RE and VR types had?
ParkRoyal2100:
Ray Smyth:
Leyland Leopards and PD3s were pneumocyclic 2 pedal buses, whereas " Pre-Select" buses
had 3 pedals. To drive offâŚEngine on tickover, without touching any pedals, put gear lever into 1st position,
press âClutchâ pedal down and let it return, the bus will not move until you give it some throttle.
Now this may sound daft, but as the bus was moving away in 1st gear, you could âPre -Selectâ 2nd gear before
you needed it, and so on through 3rd & 4th.Thanks Ray, I was getting my gearboxes in a muddle.
To clear up my remaining confusion, was there any difference between a pneumocyclic box (Leopard, Atlantean) and the SCG type that Bristol RE and VR types had?
I would say that they were the same, but I will stand being corrected. (I have a vague memory that SCG was part of British Leyland).
old 67:
" What was unusual and possibly unique about the appearance of Salfordâs bus fleet under Baroth? "There were a couple of things that reflected his pride in the appearance of the fleet ( though neither is unique ). He would not have exterior advertisements and he had extended winding handles to change the destination blinds, so the conductor did not damage the paintwork by climbing up !
Salford had a bus with full dual control which was very unusual ( and possibly unique ? ) back in the late 50s.
Itâs probably a Frederick Road canteen myth, but it is said if a bus broke down, he would not allow it to be towed in till after dark !!Regards. John.
Was I any where near ? or was it something else ?
Regards. John.
Scania bus on the âAerobusâ service from its starting point at Las Ramblas in Barcelona
city centre, waiting to load for its journey to Barcelona Airport in 2010.
Not a myth according to Michael Eyre & Chris Heapsâ âManchester and Salford, a Century of Municipal Transport.â
Following WW2 Salfordâs Municipal fleet was in a parlous state, so bad in fact that during the war the Government had threatened to tow away all the broken down vehicles and repair them for use elsewhere.
Charles Baroth achieved a complete transformation in little more than 18 months, adopting a smart new livery, instigating an annual top and tail partial repaint with a complete makeover every two years, new bus shelters, bus stop flags and a rename of the undertaking to Salford City Transport to mention a few points; not an easy undertaking in immediate post war Britain. Baroth surrounded himself with talented men to carry out his orders and his high standards.
The towing story is true. Noticing an elderly Dennis towing vehicle staioned at Victoria bus station complete with large towing chain he declared " No bus which bears my name, let alone that of the City of Salford, and which requires a device like that to move it, shall henceforth ever be allowed to leave the garage." For the next 20 odd years no bus was to be allowed to be seen to fail in public. Instructions were given that should one do so then the crew were to push it if at all possible into a side street and change the blinds to âPrivateâ. The bus was to be recovered after dark by Salfordâs pristine AEC Matador. If Baroth noticed an unwashed bus on his journey to work then it was to be withdrawn from service and a clean bus substituted.
There was alsmost a sense of animosity between Manchester and Salford transport departments. The 1947 winter caused great difficulties for Manchester starting its Crossley DD42 buses, a Tractor was kept at Piccadilly to give them a push start. The story appeared in the local paper with pictures. Baroth had a copy framed which then sat on his office mantlepiece.
Ray Smyth:
Leyland Fleetline (Formerly Daimler Fleetline), KJD 14P, new to London Transport in 1976,
seen here having been sold to Wilts & Dorset in 1983, passing Cemetery Junction on route 133
from Bournemouth to WimborneâŚin DEANB County.
Did you live in Bournemouth Ray as you seem to know some of the land marks â â 
From 1964.
old 67:
old 67:
" What was unusual and possibly unique about the appearance of Salfordâs bus fleet under Baroth? "There were a couple of things that reflected his pride in the appearance of the fleet ( though neither is unique ). He would not have exterior advertisements and he had extended winding handles to change the destination blinds, so the conductor did not damage the paintwork by climbing up !
Salford had a bus with full dual control which was very unusual ( and possibly unique ? ) back in the late 50s.
Itâs probably a Frederick Road canteen myth, but it is said if a bus broke down, he would not allow it to be towed in till after dark !!Regards. John.
Was I any where near ? or was it something else ?
Regards. John.
Yes John spot on, Advertising was not allowed on any buses of Salford City Transport in Charles Barothâs time.
cav551:
Not a myth according to Michael Eyre & Chris Heapsâ âManchester and Salford, a Century of Municipal Transport.âFollowing WW2 Salfordâs Municipal fleet was in a parlous state, so bad in fact that during the war the Government had threatened to tow away all the broken down vehicles and repair them for use elsewhere.
Charles Baroth achieved a complete transformation in little more than 18 months, adopting a smart new livery, instigating an annual top and tail partial repaint with a complete makeover every two years, new bus shelters, bus stop flags and a rename of the undertaking to Salford City Transport to mention a few points; not an easy undertaking in immediate post war Britain. Baroth surrounded himself with talented men to carry out his orders and his high standards.
The towing story is true. Noticing an elderly Dennis towing vehicle staioned at Victoria bus station complete with large towing chain he declared " No bus which bears my name, let alone that of the City of Salford, and which requires a device like that to move it, shall henceforth ever be allowed to leave the garage." For the next 20 odd years no bus was to be allowed to be seen to fail in public. Instructions were given that should one do so then the crew were to push it if at all possible into a side street and change the blinds to âPrivateâ. The bus was to be recovered after dark by Salfordâs pristine AEC Matador. If Baroth noticed an unwashed bus on his journey to work then it was to be withdrawn from service and a clean bus substituted.
There was alsmost a sense of animosity between Manchester and Salford transport departments. The 1947 winter caused great difficulties for Manchester starting its Crossley DD42 buses, a Tractor was kept at Piccadilly to give them a push start. The story appeared in the local paper with pictures. Baroth had a copy framed which then sat on his office mantlepiece.
Many of these municipal transport department General Managers were very autocratic and seemed to be able to bend council transport committees to their will, getting money released to spend on new liveries at their whim, for example. One thing that Charles Baroth couldnât change was the fact that Victoria bus station, one of the most dismal places in the country by the way, was a few yards on the wrong side of the Manchester / Salford boundary, so Salford City buses had to carry Manchester on the destination blind and not Salford on all services that went into Victoria.
DEANB:
Ray Smyth:
Leyland Fleetline (Formerly Daimler Fleetline), KJD 14P, new to London Transport in 1976,
seen here having been sold to Wilts & Dorset in 1983, passing Cemetery Junction on route 133
from Bournemouth to WimborneâŚin DEANB County.Did you live in Bournemouth Ray as you seem to know some of the land marks â â
From 1964.
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Hi Dean, I never lived in Bournemouth, but from 1995 I did lots of work to Wiltshire, Hampshire, & Dorset
during my regular deliveries for several Home Office Departments. I regularly delivered to Porton Down.
Almost every week I delivered to The Police National CBRN Centre at Winterbourne Gunner, operated by
Hampshire Police. (CBRN is Chemical, Biological, Radiological, & Nuclear).
I often took promotional equipment to Bournemouth Conference Centre. A regular drop and collect was
Remploy Marine at Alder Hills Road, Poole. Kind Regards, Ray.
This Leyland, JP 6968, when it was new was a touring coach with Smiths Tours, Wigan,
who are now Shearings Tours. Stringfellows of Wigan and Atherton acquired it when it
was 6 or 7 years old, and re-bodied it as a furniture and removals van. The picture and
information is courtesy of Norman Higham, former Stringfellows HGV driver. It is seen
here in the TA Centre in Powell Street, Wigan. I am told that with it being a coach
chassis, it was a flying machine. Regards, Ray Smyth.
