When did they let you out “CF”? 
Bewick.
Bewick:
When did they let you out “CF”?
Blimey Bewick I thought you’d at least have said something about the stupidity of putting a 3408 into a Crusader and not putting an 8LXB in it instead. 
Carryfast:
Bewick:
When did they let you out “CF”?Blimey Bewick I thought you’d at least have said something about the stupidity of putting a 3408 into a Crusader and not putting an 8LXB in it instead.
Well said my son 
now your at last talking sense it sounds like your treatment has been successful at this time and of course the 8LXB was a superior engine to the DD as I have always known and now my old mucker from Leatherhead has finally accepted the fact,so go on “CF” tell us what strength tablets you are on ? 
Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
Carryfast:
Bewick:
When did they let you out “CF”?Blimey Bewick I thought you’d at least have said something about the stupidity of putting a 3408 into a Crusader and not putting an 8LXB in it instead.
Well said my son
Obviously not the same meds that make anyone think that Detroit made a 3408 or that the 14 litre ■■■■■■■ fitted in a Guy Big J would actually have taken up as much space as an 8LXB would have done after all.
Carryfast:
Bewick:
Carryfast:
Bewick:
When did they let you out “CF”?Blimey Bewick I thought you’d at least have said something about the stupidity of putting a 3408 into a Crusader and not putting an 8LXB in it instead.
Well said my son
Obviously not the same meds that make anyone think that Detroit made a 3408 or that the 14 litre ■■■■■■■ fitted in a Guy Big J would actually have taken up as much space as an 8LXB would have done after all.
Instead of not being able to prove or not prove the story of the Crusader why don’t we get back on to the topic of best sleeper cabs from the 80s and 90s why don’t you give us your opinion Mr Carryfast
WOULD SOME ONE LIKE TO START A THREAD ABOUT BEST SLEEPER CABS.
THIS IS BORING…
While we’re on the subject my mate had jet motor with after burner form a Lightening fighter in a Ford Cargo.
And another mate had a RB 211 in a Kenworth
the Cargo had a DAY CAB and the Kenworth had a Sleeper, I never slept in his Kenworth so I don’t know how comfortable it was…
I helped build a Dennis garbage truck with a RR Merlin in it ( for Truck Stop News to try and get into the Guinness book of records )
None of the above truck were practical for road transport.
Why would you put a big Cat engine in a truck ( lorry ) that could only gross 32 tons ■■? Personally I don’t care, but if I was back in the 70 hauling by the ton I wouldn’t be giving away so much weight, especially when others were getting nearly 22 ton pay load.
Take a look at the Scammell photo it’s a model.
Jeff…
gazsa401:
Instead of not being able to prove or not prove the story of the Crusader why don’t we get back on to the topic of best sleeper cabs from the 80s and 90s why don’t you give us your opinion Mr Carryfast
Most of the reasonable euro sleepers in the day were very similar in design and size without much to seperate them with all being limited by euro overall truck length regs.DAF 2800 or Volvo F10/12 range and both also offered extended space versions of those too then DAF 95 with those types of designs probably being the basis of where things are now.Other than that it would be the KW Aerodyne in the case of cab overs or other American types in the form of conventionals which were/are able to take advantage of more flexible truck length regs.
Jelliot:
Why would you put a big Cat engine in a truck ( lorry ) that could only gross 32 tons ■■? Personally I don’t care, but if I was back in the 70 hauling by the ton I wouldn’t be giving away so much weight, especially when others were getting nearly 22 ton pay load.Take a look at the Scammell photo it’s a model.
The poster in question didn’t seem to be referring just to the 1970’s.The idea of the big CAT powered Crusader seems to have been it’s operator’s personal choice of wagon and who obviously liked the idea of thinking of an idea and then building it which I can understand while it would have made no less sense than any other big power wagon of it’s time which obviously seems to possibly include 38 t gross possible operations.
It makes no difference wether the pic is taken from a model because the model seemed to be based on the actual project in question which the poster in question was referring to and says he drove.It would be interesting to find out some more about the posts in question and give the poster a fair hearing.Obviously the subject was off topic which just meant the mods moving it to the Crusader topic if not acceptable here. 
?
Jeff…
Evening Gentlemen, well, interesting thread, and lots of practical experience, and personal road testing of cabs. You know when I was driving in the 60s I never ever longed for a sleeper cab, and really it was only when I started travelling over seas did I realise that such a thing existed! Quite frankly I never wanted one even then, Im straght into the Harry Gill/ Bewick camp, after a long day/night, (and were they not such)? the last thing I wished for was to collapse unwashed, poorly fed into a box behind the seats! Chosen carefully “digs”, even in the UK were acceptable, and the craic with fellow drivers a bonus, and yes some were horrid…but once bitten, twice shy!! But in France and Italy, a reasonably priced “commercial hotel” was always a viable option, and much cleaner than UK transport digs, and even driving a lorry, one was welcome. Not so in the UK where parking was always an issue, but on reflection were our daily works more “flexible”, and contained a large element of self sufficiency, where we could to a degree plan our own workload, and end of day rest places?
But the sleeper cab arrived, and was welcomed, but what a balancing act for the designers. What takes precidence? If the sleeper, well visibility rewards would be lost , and a weight penalty would be incurred. Purely as a bed behind the seats, then it is just that…a “doss box”, and unattractive to the user. Generally as living spaces the offerings were full of compromise, in basic terms too little space! And a great deal of design ignorance for the intended purpose…how many cabs enjoyed any form of insulation? The early coachbuilt examples, of wood and alloy were marginally more comfortable than their mass produced steel bretherin. Probably the most outstanding cab in terms of “living/operator comfort” of the period was the British designed but Swedish built Scania offering, although the “snug” Volvo 88/89 was at least warm despite its dimensional deficiency! But for pure living volume the early Mercedes LP cabs took some beating. But again the Saviem design, and MAN fitted Euro cab of 68 had the largest volume ratio of internal living space to external measurement of any manufacturer untill ovrtaken by its Berliet designed Renault built KB 24 cousin. Although the later Mercedes SK, large volume variant equalled the ratio, (and was better insulated)! But was quite a few KGs heavier.
Again of the period Mr Fodens ERF, B, C, and E series were comfortable,and light, (always a British necessity) sleepers, but the living space volume was well restricted , a common trait shared with some of the mamouth US cabover sleepers, where a mega bed size was the only priortiy. I well remember importing a KW 100in “coffin cab”, with a bed so large that a little fellow like me would get lost in its gloomy depth, (and the undesirable beast had Reyco suspension, and Trilex rear wheels). Best forgotten about…like those terrible offerings from Coventry`s Motor Panels…cold…unstlyled, and uninsulated rot boxes…the designers should have been made to spend many a winters nights in them! Some have spoken favourably of Mr DAFs 2800 cab, now personally I found these cabs cold, so large was the glazed area, but I have the central heating on long before many I know!
Perhaps the best “living” cab has to be the Renault Magnum, from its first concept as the Project Virages, the driver was at the centre of the concept…and with so many other offerings one can only draw the conclusion that the driver was the last consideration!!!
I shall away to my Bollinger, to reflect on sleeper cabs I have known…and their lack of true sleeping comfort!
Cheerio for now.
Well I have to disagree with most of that, I think the sleeper cab was one of the single most important additions to road transport in the last 50 years. Yes there can be the view point that unscrupulous bosses exploited workers, and deprived them of their rights, but in my view they were a great liberator, and added a fantastic advantage to drivers and O/D’s that were willing to take advantage of a more flexible option.
I never liked the idea of digs and having to stop early in the day to find somewhere to park for the night, I always liked to get as far as I could in any day. I know many had their favorite digs to stop at, just like I had my favorite lay-bys and parking places that I built my knowledge of over the years. Yes there was the social network that dig drivers built up as well, but I recall that many of the drivers I knew were a tad on the anti-social side, and it is still not uncommon to go to a transport cafe and find 15 drivers sitting at 15 different tables.
It is said the woman can multi-task, and men can’t, but that doesn’t matter because men can think ahead, I used to have a shower between the last physically strenuous part of the day and resting for the night/ or day, and was very happy and proud to have enough fore- thought to carry with me what I thought was required for what ever came along. There were occasions when I was caught out, but on the hole I was very happy with my circumstances.
If the sleeper cab hadn’t have come along, I doubt if the Middle East haulage would have happened, nor much of the long haul transport that many of us loved. I would dread to think of the circumstances if all the Middle East guys had to stop every night to find digs, I know a few did, but the language barrier would have stopped most before it even started. Trip times would have been extended by weeks at a time, and what would have happened if you broke down and couldn’t make it to your allotted digs that evening. Some times it was hard enough just to find a place to park, what would it have been like if you had to walk half way across a strange town in the fog at one in morning trying to find somewhere to sleep for the night as well.
Like most things to do with road transport in that era a lot of drivers were little though of by both the people that they worked for and more disgustingly the people that designed the trucks( lorries ) they drove. Thankfully some forward thinking Swedes and other European countries had a bit of forethought about such things and put things the way they should have been by pushing the sleeper cab. Perhaps if the designers of British lorries had the same vision things might have taken a different path.
Compare the cab of a Scaina 111, 140 etc, think of the adverts of the cab crush test they were running in the 70’s, now think of some of the things Britain was offering at the same time. Ash timber frame with a thin layer of fiber glass, no kind of insulation at all, no thought for any person that might have to work in that environment, let alone live in it, because lets face it that’s about what it amounted to for a lot of us.
I’m still surprised that it took Scania so long to answer the Volvo Globetrotter. Yes I know they have to do R and D but it was a very long time between the first Globetrotter, and the first official Scania big cab.
I liked my sleeper cab, it offered me freedom, comfort, and security, it was my space, I was very proud of where I lived for a long period of time.
Yes there were some that were cab rats, but most of them were also rats at home. I’m sure if they stayed in digs, then inevitably some of us would have to share their mess with them as well.
Jeff…
Can I just say the last two posts ( Saviem and Jelliot) were awesome even if they expressed oposing views. Those kind of posts are why I read this forum.
AMy first big truck with a sleeper cab was a 1988 Foden Artic with 10ltr Cat power and 13spd Fuller. I thought it was ace and felt it was much more of a proper truck than the Volvo FL’s that most of the other guys I worked with drove. A few years later on I ended up with a newer FL and in truth it was a more comfortable and better designed cab than the Foden and despite it’s size actually had more usable storage space but I could never forgive it for being a “Wendy house.”
In my opinion the best sleeper cab of that time was the Volvo F10/F12 range.
wire:
AMy first big truck with a sleeper cab was a 1988 Foden Artic with 10ltr Cat power and 13spd Fuller. I thought it was ace and felt it was much more of a proper truck than the Volvo FL’s that most of the other guys I worked with drove. A few years later on I ended up with a newer FL and in truth it was a more comfortable and better designed cab than the Foden and despite it’s size actually had more usable storage space but I could never forgive it for being a “Wendy house.”
In my opinion the best sleeper cab of that time was the Volvo F10/F12 range.
Well your opinion is wrong
It was the 2800 Daf
newmercman:
wire:
AMy first big truck with a sleeper cab was a 1988 Foden Artic with 10ltr Cat power and 13spd Fuller. I thought it was ace and felt it was much more of a proper truck than the Volvo FL’s that most of the other guys I worked with drove. A few years later on I ended up with a newer FL and in truth it was a more comfortable and better designed cab than the Foden and despite it’s size actually had more usable storage space but I could never forgive it for being a “Wendy house.”
In my opinion the best sleeper cab of that time was the Volvo F10/F12 range.Well your opinion is wrong
It was the 2800 Daf
I second that
regards dave
dafdave:
newmercman:
wire:
AMy first big truck with a sleeper cab was a 1988 Foden Artic with 10ltr Cat power and 13spd Fuller. I thought it was ace and felt it was much more of a proper truck than the Volvo FL’s that most of the other guys I worked with drove. A few years later on I ended up with a newer FL and in truth it was a more comfortable and better designed cab than the Foden and despite it’s size actually had more usable storage space but I could never forgive it for being a “Wendy house.”
In my opinion the best sleeper cab of that time was the Volvo F10/F12 range.Well your opinion is wrong
It was the 2800 Daf
I second that
regards dave
See! Dave knows his stuff
But surely the daf 2800 had to many windows in it the way most operators ordered it. The F10 just had that little rectangular window in the back which Had a proper cushioned fill in panel so you couldn’t see it.
The F10 had a proper side locker in the cab and the Daffy duck didn’t have anything.
I liked the aforementioned adjustable top bed on the Daf and the long gear stick but I always felt it was a step down from the Volvo.
Oh Mark! I bet you never ever have your central heating on untill December if you like the 2800/3300/3600 DAF sleeper!!! Comfy…yes…but cold oh yes, yes. Gosh you must be tough!
Now I always liked the early Fiat170.35 top bunk, the cab was warm, and the top bunk had springs! But the bottom bunk on the early 95 series DAFs was low enough to focus your gaze on that strange fairground ride warning light panel that always came on in bright sunlight! (not condusive to a good night sleep). Now I always liked the 110/111 Scania cab, (but of course it was designed by one of us), but there again where was the competition? My young trainee Lawyer wife, had an evening occupation… busy machining Draylon curtains for the bunk conversions that I was selling with every F86 Volvo that I sold!( and supplementing our joint incomes)! For we could just not get hold of the big external, but tiny internal cab F88/89s, so off I went to Holland and imported no end of these “second life”, (a very polite description indeed), chassis. Easy sellers into a hungry market!
One of my jobs at Saviem`s Blainville works, was to host parties of English speaking visitors. Now we were very proud of our Trim Shop, where all the bunks, seats, and curtains were manufactured…as well as the foam pillows for the Chauffer to lay his head. Of course the shop was staffed by over 100 female sewing machine operatives…and one can well imagine the Micky taking that used to go on, as I was taking parties around. Now the supervisor was a man …and his Toilet, a wall hung Urinal, was situated at the corner of the shop, visible to all…but discrete in that it was surrounded by “extra long” Saviem sleeper cab blue and yellow curtains…almost reaching the floor…but not quite, just revealing the users shoes socks and trouser bottoms! And “les girls” reckoned that they could tell by the vibration of the trouser bottom during the “after shake” the effective measurement of the" weapon".
Now if one of my charges…post prandial…had had to utilise this most public facility, as I ushered them from the shop, Marie- Claire, the senior machinist, whose work station was situated nearest to the doorway, would slowly, but audibly incant (in that distinctive Norman patois), the opinion and statistics concerning the last user…irrespective of his status or position!!! Boy did I have problems, because they knew how to make me laugh!!!
There is a lot to sleeper cabs, and that old Saviem cab with the column gearchange was a good one indeed!
Cheerio for now.
Back in the 70’s my father finally saw the light and got rid of his ill equipped unreliable British lorries that were sending him bust and started replacing them with German and Italian trucks.
Firstly the drivers were fighting over who was going to get what, and dad’s plan to replace them slowly over a few years quickly got overturned to less than 6 months.
The drivers were very happy with their Mercs and Fiats, as they offered a far superior working and living environment, and Dad was happy as he wasn’t spending all the profit on repairs and maintenance.
Things have come a long way since the first sleeper cabs, the difference between what is available now and back then is vast, and I’m sure in 50 years we will look back and think what we have today is extremely basic.
I was just a young lad in the 70’s but I remember the advent calender Merc as being vast, especially when it was parked next to the last remaining Ford D series. I always liked the look of the Saviem, and I can still recall images of them in some magazines, although I can’t remember if it was from a long running advert or a Long Distance dairy article in Truck. Dad was going to get a demo from the local dealer but none of the drivers liked the idea of the column shift so it turned out to be none starter, and another 1924 found it’s way into Dads colours courtesy of Fred Graham at Bells of Ashington.
As far as drivers went they seemed to prefer the Fiat as both a truck to drive and live in, and Dad eventually had 4 of them and 2 Mercs all doing 4 night out a week and running 32 tons from the midlands up round the highlands of Scotland, I believe it was 3 trips a week per truck. The only guy that didn’t like them was the mechanic who was eventually laid of dew to lack of work, and a new thing that the forward thinking European manufacturers were trying called contract maintenance.
Jeff…
My first night out in a 2800 was without the luxury of a bunk, it was a day cab with one of those fold down jobs, no night heater and those ridiculous white curtains that Daf used.
Later I had a C reg 2800 which had double glazed bunk windows and a night heater, it was cozy enough.
I am a bit cold blooded though, I’m still in short sleeves until it goes below freezing and even then I only wear a light jacket. Of course I have the full winter survival gear, but that’s for emergencies only. If I’m only out in it for a few minutes I don’t bother with a jacket, I do get some odd looks when it’s -20 though