ramone:
Can i ask you a serious question CF well im going to anyway
… Have you ever driven a lorry or just looked at them in books and magazines.The reason why i ask is some of your comments are bewildering to say the least you say that the very average imho 2800 was built for long distance work but the CF wasnt is this because the CF is lower to the ground and cant be used as an extension to your ■■■■■?The CF as won fleet truck of the year a few times so do all these fleet users not realise theyve been buying the wrong vehicle
I drive a CF every day its nothing spectacular but it pays my mortgage just like the equally unspectatacular 2800 did .I think the CF is a pretty poor design with just like the 2800 a low screen and those ridiculous side windows which volvo dumped years ago .The CF does a very adequate job on long distance and short distance much the same way as those old ergos did when they were the modern motor.
Yes as I’ve said countless times I’ve driven loads of different trucks starting with some that I’d doubt you even knew existed at the time let alone driven.
I’ve got to say I’ve got my doubts though about anyone who’s trying to suggest that the 2800 wasn’t in a totally different league to the Marathon assuming they’ve driven both.IE if I’ve read it right you’ve said that the 2800 was ‘cramped’ but you don’t seem to think that the Marathon was.When the fact is it was totally the opposite not surprising considering the Marathon’s roots.However it’s absolutely unbelievable that anyone who’s driven both could possibly rate the Marathon over the 2800.Especially if they’ve ever spent a few nights out in the Marathon cab.
But no the CF isn’t in the same league or aimed at the same market as the XF just as the 85 wasn’t aimed at the same market as the 95.In just the same way that the Crusader was in a different league to the ERGO or the Marathon.The Crusader was borderline up to it’s job as a top league long haul wagon at the time while the ERGO or the Marathon weren’t.Simples.
Well some of your comments leave a lot to be desired sometimes verging on childlike replies.Well for a start the Daf 2800 ,and i have driven quite a few had the engine hump in the middle and some plastic tray hindering cross cab access ,the marathon was virtually walk through i have nothing against the 2800 but they were nothing special and had many faults just like the marathon did.Ive never been cab happy i work for wages not a big flashy motor which i would have to subsidise with lower pay.newmercman hit the nail on the head with his comments on the focus and golf gti its all about the stigma .I have no interest in sitting high in a cab thinking im king of the road im doing a job to earn a wage.Yes its very nice to have a good motor but there arent any bad motors about now just some that hold that stigma nmm mentioned .Back in 65 the ergo you slate at every opportunity was the equivillent to the latest top motor now .Most were coach built cabs in 64 with no heaters or sound insulation ,not that the ergo did much in the sound insulation stakes .How come so many liked them and so many were sold if these were crap■■?
Well just take a look at the photos below,the first is what you think was streets ahead of a marathon,the motor panels Crusader what could have been Leylands saviour ffs
The second is the last generation 3200 cab wich looks awful cramped to me but then again i only drove a few so i could be wrong
The third is the absolute disaster what was the Marathon ,which when you look closely was virtually walk through
Well the mk2 Marathon wasnt too bad at all not perfect just not bad and on a par with the rest of the budget motors england were producing at the time ,and the Daf just like today dont impress me much ,my choice would be a Scania not a new 1 just a decent 1
Firstly although the Marathon had a relatively flatter cab floor area it didn’t make much difference because all that did was to add a bit more convenience in being able to move around what was just a small narrow cab without much overall living space because of it’s small narrow width hence the ridiculous steering wheel because that’s all there was room for and slightly extended length day cab design certainly not anything like a decent sleeper cab.
If cross cab floor height is that important then it’s obvious that the Crusader provided the best combination of relatively low engine hump v overall cab area.Especially when it’s remembered that the thing was available while the ERGO was in production and before the start of the 1970’s.
While if cross cab access has ever been the only criterea that matters then the Renault Magnum would probably be the best selling wagon in the long haul market of all time.
bma.finland:
CF i,ll think you bee dreaming or have rosa spectacules, know many that think their own favorite is best ,but it depends of aftermarketing what you transport how long distance in what weater and road condisions,how you know the mark you drive and so on. my likes scanias because of simply reason that i always have worked whit them,so i know them and fix them and can tell to workshop what,s wrong ,we have a F12 to ,now 4 years and soon i learn it,s common stong and weakness .and in some jobs and in reabilyty ia as good as the scannies have to say somethimes even better so it,s wrong to try to tell folk,s working whit other tool,s they wrong,listen and learn dear CF,one who have, cheers benkku
you’ve got to understand bma. the only tool that “CF” plays with is the one attached to his lower abdomen !!! Cheers Benkku,Dennis.
no problem ,i,ll deal whit carryfast,(besserwissers)s every day ,sometimes get a fight whit them but usualy don,t ,as it get boaring to get no where ,
discussion is to learn of ohters andlearn others(abit) but a old 78 rolling and rolling is boooooooring,good bless folks like most of trucknet members whit sence and humor ,AND KNOWLESS,cheers benkku
ramone:
Well just take a look at the photos below,the first is what you think was streets ahead of a marathon,the motor panels Crusader what could have been Leylands saviour ffs
The second is the last generation 3200 cab wich looks awful cramped to me but then again i only drove a few so i could be wrong
The third is the absolute disaster what was the Marathon ,which when you look closely was virtually walk through
Well the mk2 Marathon wasnt too bad at all not perfect just not bad and on a par with the rest of the budget motors england were producing at the time ,and the Daf just like today dont impress me much ,my choice would be a Scania not a new 1 just a decent 1
Hey Ramone, Everyone his own experience and favorites. But I always have had a soft spot for old lorries and still which goes straight back to the surplus lorries after WWII. In some cases I agree with you about DAF as a 2800/3600 not had a walk through cab, bad door windows designs on the CF, no space underneath the lower bed in the 2800/3600 series. The only I knew with a spacious cab were the Merc’s in the '60’s and '70’s and no more the new generation (NG)from '74 on. As I said to be a fanatic I always tryed to speak with lorry lovers in all countries I went to. And I like to see every marque even if I didn’t like them
when new. In the UK I spoke to quite a lot who said to me which not only had one or two and who stayed loyal for years with AEC or Leyland. Told me if we had continued with the Marathons they would have run us out of service,due to breakdowns and costs. And as I wrote before I have no experience with them,but if more tell the same it may be believable.
I see that there are still a big lot of scannie lovers in the UK,as here it goes down and down even MAN and Merc have overtaken them on sales.
Of course we have the fanatics who can’t withstand to buy the name. Like Mercedes car bayers who buys the star, not the car.What not means that I will say the Scannies nowadays are bad no,but here got a hammerblow with the 4 serie and never overcomed/recovered from it.
Here you are bma.guess who this is ? the photo may look better( or worse) depending on how much Lager you have drunk this evening,after a hard week at work !!Cheers Dennis.
Well, this could have been a great thread…but again…
Some great contributions from people who know about Ergomatics…and copious ones from one who patently does not. Our friends bma, and Tiptop have both summed it up so well.
Valkyrie, may I suggest that you look up the well documented history surrounding Leyland/GM, and how that led on to DAFs involvment. Hansard has some most interesting passages. And you may discover more of the labarinthyne passages that surround the “murky” business in total, including MAN and even Mercedes. Truly it is not as clear cut as one imagines!
Now US cabs, truly beauty is in the eye of the beholder…maybe our friend Tiptop remembers the large advertisments placed by Macks agent Van Hove NV…“American Trucks for European Drivers…Follow Me”…and they did…straight to the nearest Volvo, Mercedes, or Scania Dealer, to part exchange the bouncy castle for a proper lorry!
Ergo…truly a fantastic design…in its day. And a comfortable place to do a days work. My best Ergo, of course, it has to be the Marshall, others favour that cab above different power trains, and chassis, but it really was a groundb reaking design.
Saviem:
Well, this could have been a great thread…but again…
Now US cabs, truly beauty is in the eye of the beholder…maybe our friend Tiptop remembers the large advertisments placed by Macks agent Van Hove NV…“American Trucks for European Drivers…Follow Me”…and they did…straight to the nearest Volvo, Mercedes, or Scania Dealer, to part exchange the bouncy castle for a proper lorry!
Ergo…truly a fantastic design…in its day.
Blimey yet more re writing of history.Somehow I don’t think that’s how those who worked at AEC or the Leyland Group as a whole would see it obviously including it’s own management.As for European drivers/operators not wanting American trucks you obviously missed this.Not bad for a fleet of bouncy castle wagons.Probably more like the Swiss had the money to invest in some decent wagons.However they obviously would have spent the money on a fleet of Marathons instead if they thought they could do the job better.
I find it very hard to believe that all the idiots who have run successful transport companies in the UK have managed to do all of this without having a single US truck on the fleet
Carryfast, you’re entertaining, but completely off your nut mate Pretty much everything you’ve said over the last dozen or so pages boils down to everyone is wrong as they never fitted Peterbilt style cabs and huge ■■■■■■■ engines to their products, how strange that your beloved Daf has only fitted a ■■■■■■■ engine to the 500/530hp pre euro3 95/XF, even stranger is that ■■■■■■■ themself went into partnership with Daf parent company Paccar, along with IVECO and Case New Holland to produce a range of four and six cylinder engines for light/middleweight engines
One other fact that escapes your attention, Daf went into bankruptcy because of the design and development costs associated with the 65/75/85 cab, yet you keep suggesting that the Ergo cab should’ve been scrapped in favour of a newer American influenced design, even though money was tight at BL at the time
We all have different ideas about transport and lorries, yours seem to stem from an inferiority complex or maybe you’re compensating for a lack of size in the trouser department that could only be overcome by having the biggest engine under the biggest cab possible
But, keep up the good work, I learn a lot from the people who disagree with you
Ramone, you’re right about the Marathon cab, I forgot about the kink in the door
Lots of questions remain unanswered about the design and history of the Ergomatic Leylands, for example:
We know it was narrower than some other top-weight lorries’ cabs. What was its actual width, between the doors. I bet it was within a few inches of an F88.
Despite Leyland’s winding-down of its European sales efforts, from the mid-1950s onwards, plenty of Ergos found their way into European fleets. The sales networks must have done a good job, considering Leyland’s indifference to the Continent. How were the Ergos regarded by their operators?
Why did the Spanish and Portuguese markets dislike the Ergo, sufficiently to engineer their own cab installations?
There will be more interesting points to be raised, and people with the relevant knowledge to provide the answers. I wonder if such people have been put off contributing, by the uninformed, crass, juvenile opinions of a single TNUK member? I am sick of it. I contribute to other forums (not connected with vehicles), and idiots are just bullied off them by the good posters, with unrelenting insults. This forum is delightfully polite and respectful, so that is not an option here. Cf, please give up and go away.
Not so sure about Spain, but Portugal had a law about local content, so recabbing was about all they could do as they never had much in the way of a home grown lorry, their neighbours to the east were late arrivals into the EEC, so there may have been similar regulations there too
newmercman:
I find it very hard to believe that all the idiots who have run successful transport companies in the UK have managed to do all of this without having a single US truck on the fleet
Carryfast, you’re entertaining, but completely off your nut mate Pretty much everything you’ve said over the last dozen or so pages boils down to everyone is wrong as they never fitted Peterbilt style cabs and huge ■■■■■■■ engines to their products, how strange that your beloved Daf has only fitted a ■■■■■■■ engine to the 500/530hp pre euro3 95/XF, even stranger is that ■■■■■■■ themself went into partnership with Daf parent company Paccar, along with IVECO and Case New Holland to produce a range of four and six cylinder engines for light/middleweight engines
One other fact that escapes your attention, Daf went into bankruptcy because of the design and development costs associated with the 65/75/85 cab, yet you keep suggesting that the Ergo cab should’ve been scrapped in favour of a newer American influenced design, even though money was tight at BL at the time
We all have different ideas about transport and lorries, yours seem to stem from an inferiority complex or maybe you’re compensating for a lack of size in the trouser department that could only be overcome by having the biggest engine under the biggest cab possible
But, keep up the good work, I learn a lot from the people who disagree with you
Ramone, you’re right about the Marathon cab, I forgot about the kink in the door
I’m not discussing the issue of the operators who chose to use trucks like the ERGO I’m discussing the issue of the results which wasting time and money on it’s design and the Marathon had on Leyland in the long term when those ‘successful operators’ changed their minds.If you choose to accept the re written version of history that’s your choice.
If you’d have read what I’ve written I’ve actually said that Leyland had no choice anyway other than as I’ve said to have concentrated it’s efforts on the Crusader instead.Which still probably would have just delayed the inevitable.As for my so called beloved DAF I’ve actually made the case that DAF were just one of Leyland’s competitors and those competitors didn’t get where they were by not throwing money at the design of their premium top of the line products.Which just leaves the fact that it’s then a just case of the financially strongest with the most demand for their products survive.Which is just how Stokes and Leyland’s management would have viewed the situation when it came to AEC’s management arguing the case for development of the 3 VTG instead of continued wasted effort in the ERGO and Marathon ideas.Which you obviously agree was the correct decision.Although obviously for different reasons to me and probably Leyland’s management.
Good point nmm. However, there were plenty of normal control Leylands sold in Spain, with what looked like Lancs-built cabs on them. Found these Portuguese AECs on Flickr:
[zb]
anorak:
Lots of questions remain unanswered about the design and history of the Ergomatic Leylands, for example:
We know it was narrower than some other top-weight lorries’ cabs. What was its actual width, between the doors. I bet it was within a few inches of an F88.
Despite Leyland’s winding-down of its European sales efforts, from the mid-1950s onwards, plenty of Ergos found their way into European fleets. The sales networks must have done a good job, considering Leyland’s indifference to the Continent. How were the Ergos regarded by their operators?
Why did the Spanish and Portuguese markets dislike the Ergo, sufficiently to engineer their own cab installations?
There will be more interesting points to be raised, and people with the relevant knowledge to provide the answers. I wonder if such people have been put off contributing, by the uninformed, crass, juvenile opinions of a single TNUK member? I am sick of it. I contribute to other forums (not connected with vehicles), and idiots are just bullied off them by the good posters, with unrelenting insults. This forum is delightfully polite and respectful, so that is not an option here. Cf, please give up and go away.
I would be suprised if the F88 was wider than the Marathon it always looked a narrow cab to me and quite cramped but with the aforementioned stigma
Yes Saviem you are correct again, as you always are. Some of us who actually have ‘hand on’ experience of lorries from driving them, maintaining them, operating them, specifying them and even restoring them do get put off by some posters and the uninformed drivel, tripe, and rubbish they contribute to topics. I respect everyone’s right to an opinion but why oh why do they continue to repeat their ill-informed and ignorant comments ad-infinitum?
I’m with you, the ERGO cab was a ground breaking innovation in 1964/65 and fitted to a Mercury, Marshal, Super Comet, Reiver etc. there was simply nothing else that ticked all the boxes for driver comfort and operating costs. My own happiest personal lorry driving memories are of Ergo cabbed AEC Mercurys and Marshals. Great memories, great lorries and quite frankly I don’t give a flying **** what anyone else on here thinks.
Saviem:
Well, this could have been a great thread…but again…
Now US cabs, truly beauty is in the eye of the beholder…maybe our friend Tiptop remembers the large advertisments placed by Macks agent Van Hove NV…“American Trucks for European Drivers…Follow Me”…and they did…straight to the nearest Volvo, Mercedes, or Scania Dealer, to part exchange the bouncy castle for a proper lorry!
Hey Saviem, yes Van Hove did a big effort to break through in the artic world here. He must have been a bit inspired in the mid '70’s suddenly by the coming of all new marques in the top class as Dodge 300 Barreiros,Bedford TM (for me a good looking and nice cab,but needn’t a DD engine over here),The Transconti (lots were sold of them here) Hino HE.But the other side of the coin was the it has run him out of business. Luckely he could stretch it a bit with the well selling Setra coaches and the earthworks companies buying still Macks,but not for long anymore as drivers wanted to drive more comfortable workhorses,and not driving a tank. But nowadays old entrepreneurs assert still that it were real reliable workhorses with nearly no weak points.
