WaggerWagger888:
With car trannies my way was off m4, junc. afterthe services (can,t remember the name) I think it was a512, past Kempton race course and Hampton Court to the silly isles onto A3, through back of epsom(low bridge country) to the first bit of m25 at Reigate onto a23. Memory is a bit hazy now but that was one way, various other routes I recognise but this way kept you out of London.
Sounds like using the Norf Circ to M4 A312 - Hanworth, A316 to Sunbury ? the rest should be usual Tolworth to Reigate ?.
15’3’’ Tolworth and Drift Bridge is a high arch that looks lower than it is not even marked ?.All old routes that are still well used today.
Never touched the n. Circ. A34 from brum, oxford ring road a40, m40 to junc. 4. Marlowe hill down to m4 then down a512 junc. and round Staines r.r. which I think became part of the M25. And on to kempton and Hampton Court and route as previous post.
WaggerWagger888:
With car trannies my way was off m4, junc. afterthe services (can,t remember the name) I think it was a512, past Kempton race course and Hampton Court to the silly isles onto A3, through back of epsom(low bridge country) to the first bit of m25 at Reigate onto a23. Memory is a bit hazy now but that was one way, various other routes I recognise but this way kept you out of London.
Sounds like using the Norf Circ to M4 A312 - Hanworth, A316 to Sunbury ? the rest should be usual Tolworth to Reigate ?.
15’3’’ Tolworth and Drift Bridge is a high arch that looks lower than it is not even marked ?.All old routes that are still well used today.
Sorry senior moment, left M4 junct. before heston serv. A312 Feltham. Tolworth bridge was 14.3" in those days, we came off A3 at the Hook turn off and joined back onto A240 further down toward Reigate.
Never touched the n. Circ. A34 from brum, oxford ring road a40, m40 to junc. 4. Marlowe hill down to m4 then down a512 junc. and round Staines r.r. which I think became part of the M25. And on to kempton and Hampton Court and route as previous post.
WaggerWagger888:
With car trannies my way was off m4, junc. afterthe services (can,t remember the name) I think it was a512, past Kempton race course and Hampton Court to the silly isles onto A3, through back of epsom(low bridge country) to the first bit of m25 at Reigate onto a23. Memory is a bit hazy now but that was one way, various other routes I recognise but this way kept you out of London.
Sounds like using the Norf Circ to M4 A312 - Hanworth, A316 to Sunbury ? the rest should be usual Tolworth to Reigate ?.
15’3’’ Tolworth and Drift Bridge is a high arch that looks lower than it is not even marked ?.All old routes that are still well used today.
Sorry senior moment, left M4 junct. before heston serv. A312 Feltham. Tolworth bridge was 14.3" in those days, we came off A3 at the Hook turn off and joined back onto A240 further down toward Reigate.
I didn’t remember Tolworth bridge being lower than now.
So you went Hook then under the higher bridge at Bridge Road Chessington to Ewell.That’s where I lived for 32 years up to the mid 1990’s.
well,i’ve tried all these various routes this week…and they’re all pretty ■■■■■
i seem to remember it took me 25 minutes to get from bottom end of the M1,to the other side of London…but i could be wrong! the early '80’s were a long time ago.
carryfast-yeti:
well,i’ve tried all these various routes this week…and they’re all pretty [zb]
i seem to remember it took me 25 minutes to get from bottom end of the M1,to the other side of London…but i could be wrong! the early '80’s were a long time ago.
Lots more slow traffic now and traffic lights and traffic calming and 30 limit enforcement and silly traffic light phasing so one set goes green as the set ahead are timed deliberately to go red etc etc.It’s not ideal but when the M25 is bad it really is bad possibly hours delay.
carryfast-yeti:
well,i’ve tried all these various routes this week…and they’re all pretty [zb]
i seem to remember it took me 25 minutes to get from bottom end of the M1,to the other side of London…but i could be wrong! the early '80’s were a long time ago.
Obviously a very different destination but It was never quick back then during the day if you hit it wrong.
In the early/mid 70’s & before the routes from the M1 or A1 via Archway, Balls Pond rd, Blackwall Tunnel, Well Hall or Kidbrook, Clifton’s to Kent; or the alternative from the M4 Via Earls Court, Chelsea Bridge, Vauxhall, Lewisham to Kent were both very popular for Kent drivers. Hastings and Weald Area drivers departed at Crittall’s Corner to head for Badger’s Mount and the A21. If you did not hit Scratchwood or Heston before 1500 to 1530 it would be around 1700 or even a little later before you reached the A2 Rochester Way or Perry Street Lights at Sidcup on the A20. Five Ways Traffic lights at New Eltham could have a long queue almost as far back as the Dutch House.
In the wee small hours the reverse direction only took about 40-50 minutes.
cav551:
In the early/mid 70’s & before the routes from the M1 or A1 via Archway, Balls Pond rd, Blackwall Tunnel, Well Hall or Kidbrook, Clifton’s to Kent; or the alternative from the M4 Via Earls Court, Chelsea Bridge, Vauxhall, Lewisham to Kent were both very popular for Kent drivers. Hastings and Weald Area drivers departed at Crittall’s Corner to head for Badger’s Mount and the A21. If you did not hit Scratchwood or Heston before 1500 to 1530 it would be around 1700 or even a little later before you reached the A2 Rochester Way or Perry Street Lights at Sidcup on the A20. Five Ways Traffic lights at New Eltham could have a long queue almost as far back as the Dutch House.
In the wee small hours the reverse direction only took about 40-50 minutes.
Then or now not many drivers would have chosen to go into London to get from the North into Kent proper.
At worst possibly A232 via Croydon to A21.But Reigate A25/A20 would be the default choice to my knowledge after circumventing London by North Circ or Harrow/Greenford/Isleworth or possibly as said above A312 to Sunbury.
Also possibly the eastern routes via Dartford crossing ?.
But anywhere near the South Circ was always a nightmare of local London traffic combined with through traffic on what was just a mish mash of joke urban streets with through traffic signage.
While much of the M25 has just created a similar problem of London’s local traffic problems being moved further out and getting under the feet of through traffic.Ironically then using local roads as rat runs and relief roads to avoid the M25’s frequent problems.
cav551:
In the early/mid 70’s & before the routes from the M1 or A1 via Archway, Balls Pond rd, Blackwall Tunnel, Well Hall or Kidbrook, Clifton’s to Kent; or the alternative from the M4 Via Earls Court, Chelsea Bridge, Vauxhall, Lewisham to Kent were both very popular for Kent drivers. Hastings and Weald Area drivers departed at Crittall’s Corner to head for Badger’s Mount and the A21. If you did not hit Scratchwood or Heston before 1500 to 1530 it would be around 1700 or even a little later before you reached the A2 Rochester Way or Perry Street Lights at Sidcup on the A20. Five Ways Traffic lights at New Eltham could have a long queue almost as far back as the Dutch House.
In the wee small hours the reverse direction only took about 40-50 minutes.
Then or now not many drivers would have chosen to go into London to get from the North into Kent proper.
At worst possibly A232 via Croydon to A21.But Reigate A25/A20 would be the default choice to my knowledge after circumventing London by North Circ or Harrow/Greenford/Isleworth or possibly as said above A312 to Sunbury.
Also possibly the eastern routes via Dartford crossing ?.
But anywhere near the South Circ was always a nightmare of local London traffic combined with through traffic on what was just a mish mash of joke urban streets with through traffic signage.
While much of the M25 has just created a similar problem of London’s local traffic problems being moved further out and getting under the feet of through traffic.Ironically then using local roads as rat runs and relief roads to avoid the M25’s frequent problems.
I have given this time to ask a few people how they went in the 70s and not one went via the A25 to get to the M1 from Kent, nor via the North Circular. Up until 1980 at the earliest Kent was still the Garden of England with large quantities of produce sent to the London Markets, meaning that drivers from the area had no fear of going into or through London. For those doing multidrop deliveries in South London the A232 had some relevance, but for those from Thanet it went nowhere useful. Even today the route planners indicate over an hour in a car from Wrotham Heath to the top of Reigate Hill along the A25. It was a road we used to get to the South West or places adjoining the road and it was a slow-going switchback ride. The second Dartford Tunnel didn’t open until 1980, The A13 was not dual carriageway and nor were significant sections of the North Circular with some sections being under construction.
We went Via Blackwall Tunnel or one of the bridges to most places North or West either via Holloway rd and Archway (stopping at the cafe sometimes) or one of the Bridges and Warwick rd.
I have kept out of this as I only went into London from the north once to recover a broken down tanker of ours headed for Lenham. This would be late seventies or early eighties but pre M25 although the M10 was open. I went M1/M10/ A111 Cockfosters down to the North Circular. Onto the A10 then off on the A107 through Clapton, round by Hackney Hospital and ‘through the spout’ (Blackwall Tunnel ) which was the way our vehicles went to Lenham and Sevenoaks etc.
Carryfast:
Then or now not many drivers would have chosen to go into London to get from the North into Kent proper.
At worst possibly A232 via Croydon to A21.But Reigate A25/A20 would be the default choice to my knowledge after circumventing London by North Circ or Harrow/Greenford/Isleworth or possibly as said above A312 to Sunbury.
Also possibly the eastern routes via Dartford crossing ?.
But anywhere near the South Circ was always a nightmare of local London traffic combined with through traffic on what was just a mish mash of joke urban streets with through traffic signage.
While much of the M25 has just created a similar problem of London’s local traffic problems being moved further out and getting under the feet of through traffic.Ironically then using local roads as rat runs and relief roads to avoid the M25’s frequent problems.
I have given this time to ask a few people how they went in the 70s and not one went via the A25 to get to the M1 from Kent, nor via the North Circular. Up until 1980 at the earliest Kent was still the Garden of England with large quantities of produce sent to the London Markets, meaning that drivers from the area had no fear of going into or through London. For those doing multidrop deliveries in South London the A232 had some relevance, but for those from Thanet it went nowhere useful. Even today the route planners indicate over an hour in a car from Wrotham Heath to the top of Reigate Hill along the A25. It was a road we used to get to the South West or places adjoining the road and it was a slow-going switchback ride. The second Dartford Tunnel didn’t open until 1980, The A13 was not dual carriageway and nor were significant sections of the North Circular with some sections being under construction.
We went Via Blackwall Tunnel or one of the bridges to most places North or West either via Holloway rd and Archway (stopping at the cafe sometimes) or one of the Bridges and Warwick rd.
I can understand why going through town was propably seen as a more relevant choice for North Kent.
But Bushey, Harrow, Greenford, Iselworth to miss the North Circ and Sunbury, Hampton Court, Tolworth, Reigate was a very well used Commercial route in the day sometimes more trucks than cars.It was also very common to see TIR traffic heading to/from that way for Dover.
As for the A 232, the A25/20 was also better than having to battle through the old Surrey and Kent London suburbs/towns from Sutton to Wickam and Orpington then let alone now.But it was still a useful alternative leaving the choice of Swanley for North Kent or Sevenoaks and Maidstone and beyond at the end of it while still avoiding the worst of the South Circular’s type issues going further into London.
To this day I think I’d prefer to use A20/A25 to Reigate etc, than use the A2 into and through London, to get to/from the M1 from/to let’s say the Ashford area or Dover as opposed to obviously Rochester/Sittingbourne areas.Especially these days with TFL’s laughable traffic light phasing and road planning ideas.You can understand the protests at such through traffic on those routes in the day.Ashord/Dover at least to the M1 via A2 and Blackwall really made no sense for anyone.
Carryfast:
Ironically then using local roads as rat runs and relief roads to avoid the M25’s frequent problems.
Which itself was built slap-bang in the middle of the then London “Green Belt”. Progress, what progress?
Actually it’s Kent’s,Surrey’s, Bucks, Herts etc ‘green belt’ .
London by definition is a City it has/should have, no countryside.
There was no real need for the M25 anyway.Much better to have extended the M27 from Hants through Sussex and Kent, upgrade the A34 and A 414 to motorway standard and link the A1 with the A120 and build two QE2 bridges instead of 1.
I frequently had to travel from Portsmouth to Northwood and Chatham in the mid 70’s. Never managed to find a route that was anything other than turgid. In saying that Portsmouth to Plymouth was a nightmare as well.
windrush:
I have kept out of this as I only went into London from the north once to recover a broken down tanker of ours headed for Lenham. This would be late seventies or early eighties but pre M25 although the M10 was open. I went M1/M10/ A111 Cockfosters down to the North Circular. Onto the A10 then off on the A107 through Clapton, round by Hackney Hospital and ‘through the spout’ (Blackwall Tunnel ) which was the way our vehicles went to Lenham and Sevenoaks etc.
Pete.
You’d be OK with that map of yours Pete, you know, the one that doesn’t go north of Pikehall.
I only ever went down there once before the M25 was finished & that was just after I’d passed my HGV test, I went to fetch a Ford D series back from Whitstable to Longford, I was only thinking about it today as I’ve tipped at ■■■■■■■ generator factory at Manston today, right next to where the freight traffic is being parked before departing for Europe & beyond.
Dennis Javelin:
Talking of the M25 this is a pic of it under construction at Thurrock
My father in law ran two eight wheeler tippers which were contracted for taking aggregate down to the building of the M25. J. Stewart transport. One of the nicest people you would ever know.
windrush:
I have kept out of this as I only went into London from the north once to recover a broken down tanker of ours headed for Lenham. This would be late seventies or early eighties but pre M25 although the M10 was open. I went M1/M10/ A111 Cockfosters down to the North Circular. Onto the A10 then off on the A107 through Clapton, round by Hackney Hospital and ‘through the spout’ (Blackwall Tunnel ) which was the way our vehicles went to Lenham and Sevenoaks etc.
Pete.
You’d be OK with that map of yours Pete, you know, the one that doesn’t go north of Pikehall.
I only ever went down there once before the M25 was finished & that was just after I’d passed my HGV test, I went to fetch a Ford D series back from Whitstable to Longford, I was only thinking about it today as I’ve tipped at ■■■■■■■ generator factory at Manston today, right next to where the freight traffic is being parked before departing for Europe & beyond.
I didn’t need a map Robert, I spent 90% of the time north of Pikehall in the eighties so it was ingrained in my brain! I went that same route through London a few years ago towing my caravan and it hadn’t changed much and it was a sunday so pretty much traffic free. I bet it’s still chaos on a weekday though.
Well in 1962/3 I did quite a few loads from Wright Andersons Gateshead down to Gatwick Airport, Some of these were 40Ft beams 3 tonne each and there was three to a load, I used to use the A10 in those days into London finding somewhere to park up was difficult sometimes. Then down the A 23 at the crack of dawn onto the job, You had to have a amber flahing light when going on site, It was quick tip as the lads were all Geordies lodging there, The good old days, The beams were very similar to these on Smilers ERF, I had a Mk 5 AEC When doing the Gatwick job, Regards Larry.
