When did Scania manual boxes get so bad? Last one I drove was in a V reg 124 420 (12+2 IIRC, three gate rc+splitter anyways) and it was a nice change. Much better than my cable-shift 53-reg FH12 at the time which was terribly stiff and heavy. I generally drive Daf zf 16 speed manuals these days (now a part timer) and they’re usually nice and light when they warm up.
I was talking to a driver from a well known west wales Volvo fleet the other day, and he didnt have a good thing to say about ishift in his 61-reg FH460 - he was the only bad report I’ve ever heard of ishift but he reckoned the gaffer had them all locked in economy mode so no wonder. Just goes to show, even the good autos can be screwed up if some tightarsed fleet manager specs them badly. 
You pull away with the clutch and you come to a stop with the clutch, thats it, fairly easy concept to understand even for most simple driver.
m1cks:
GCR2ERF:
can’t see the point in the clutch myself… recently mentioned this to the Scania rep who handed over our new 3-pedal auto rigid, and he trotted out the 'improved ‘low speed manouverability’ party line. When I said our office had yet to receive a call from one of our Volvo (I-shift) drivers complaining of not being able to get in somewhere due to their lack of a clutch, he changed the topic!
Low speed manoeuvres is the only reason I can think of for having a clutch.
In response to your Volvo argument, have you ever tried to reverse a auto MAN? I’d love a clutch in one of those.
Have to say we have been spoilt with I-Shifts only, can’t comment on other autos. Have seen other lorries backing into our yard (especially Man’s & Daf’s) that were kangaroo-ing a bit!
Even the Scania rep admitted the I-shift wiped the floor with their 'box!
The amount of Twin Splitters comments amaze me. The twin splitter was only fitted to British lorries like ERF, Foden and Seddon Atkinson, a few Dafs, IVECOs and MANs (most of them had a ZF ecosplit)
I was on the road when the TS was around and vehicles fitted with it were in the minority, even the British makes, not all of them had the TS, the regular 9spd Eaton Fuller was the standard (cheaper) option.
I also witnessed a lot of crunching and revving from drivers who had found one of the hundreds of neutrals that the TS had, and listened to the moans of drivers about that poxy Twin Splitter.
Yet now that they’ve gone and there’s no way of proving that people could actually master the TS, they’re the best thing since sliced bread.
This thread, more than most, highlights this, as the TS also had a clutch that was only used for starting/stopping & low speed maneuvering.
I agree with everyone that looks back on them with fond memories, they were indeed a fine gearbox, get the shift right and it was lightning fast and as smooth as silk, getting it wrong was another story though, if you couldn’t get the hang if it (& many didn’t) in that case they were in the top five of worst gearboxes of all time.
I do wonder sometimes, how many people who claim to have used one actually did, and of those, how many were actual masters of the art of shifting the Twin Splitter…
Saaamon:
You pull away with the clutch and you come to a stop with the clutch, thats it, fairly easy concept to understand even for most simple driver.
who said they didn’t understand the ‘concept’■■?
It’s a ■■■■ box, it’s lazy, it’s unpredictable and it’s slow. It’s crap.
bigtruck:
newmercman:
The amount of Twin Splitters comments amaze me. The twin splitter was only fitted to British lorries like ERF, Foden and Seddon Atkinson, a few Dafs, IVECOs and MANs (most of them had a ZF ecosplit)
I was on the road when the TS was around and vehicles fitted with it were in the minority, even the British makes, not all of them had the TS, the regular 9spd Eaton Fuller was the standard (cheaper) option.
I also witnessed a lot of crunching and revving from drivers who had found one of the hundreds of neutrals that the TS had, and listened to the moans of drivers about that poxy Twin Splitter.
Yet now that they’ve gone and there’s no way of proving that people could actually master the TS, they’re the best thing since sliced bread.
This thread, more than most, highlights this, as the TS also had a clutch that was only used for starting/stopping & low speed maneuvering.
I agree with everyone that looks back on them with fond memories, they were indeed a fine gearbox, get the shift right and it was lightning fast and as smooth as silk, getting it wrong was another story though, if you couldn’t get the hang if it (& many didn’t) in that case they were in the top five of worst gearboxes of all time.
I do wonder sometimes, how many people who claim to have used one actually did, and of those, how many were actual masters of the art of shifting the Twin Splitter…
In days of old they were the best thing ever, I started with one and loved it and still do, it took skill to use , no heavy handed thuggery worked , it just grinded ! but getting the revs right and a quick flick and it was magic.
Thats my point…Professional drivers . Thats why a lot of steering wheel attendants have never driven with anything other than an auto and could never make a good job of using a proper box.
3 wheeler:
bigtruck:
newmercman:
The amount of Twin Splitters comments amaze me. The twin splitter was only fitted to British lorries like ERF, Foden and Seddon Atkinson, a few Dafs, IVECOs and MANs (most of them had a ZF ecosplit)
I was on the road when the TS was around and vehicles fitted with it were in the minority, even the British makes, not all of them had the TS, the regular 9spd Eaton Fuller was the standard (cheaper) option.
I also witnessed a lot of crunching and revving from drivers who had found one of the hundreds of neutrals that the TS had, and listened to the moans of drivers about that poxy Twin Splitter.
Yet now that they’ve gone and there’s no way of proving that people could actually master the TS, they’re the best thing since sliced bread.
This thread, more than most, highlights this, as the TS also had a clutch that was only used for starting/stopping & low speed maneuvering.
I agree with everyone that looks back on them with fond memories, they were indeed a fine gearbox, get the shift right and it was lightning fast and as smooth as silk, getting it wrong was another story though, if you couldn’t get the hang if it (& many didn’t) in that case they were in the top five of worst gearboxes of all time.
I do wonder sometimes, how many people who claim to have used one actually did, and of those, how many were actual masters of the art of shifting the Twin Splitter…
In days of old they were the best thing ever, I started with one and loved it and still do, it took skill to use , no heavy handed thuggery worked , it just grinded ! but getting the revs right and a quick flick and it was magic.
Thats my point…Professional drivers . Thats why a lot of steering wheel attendants have never driven with anything other than an auto and could never make a good job of using a proper box.
The thing is, we haven’t got the full picture on opinions on AMTs, how many actually like them?
We hear from the ones who are not fans of them, or that one is better than another, but that’s how it works, bad news sells, a few drivers dislike, in this case, a Scania gearbox and a thread will run into multiple pages, even if it doesn’t shoot off on tangents.
Yet there are 1000’s of Scanias with Opticruise, I’m quite sure most drivers don’t have a problem with them.
Personally I think the old three pedal opticruise was a bad effort by Scania.
I drove one of the Jordan F1 team 164-580s when I poncing around at Scania HQ once and IMHO it ruined the lorry.
But, if it was my lorry to drive every day, I’d soon learn how to get the best out of it. That maybe where the difference lies in being a driver or a steering wheel attendant.
Although I’m possibly a little biased in that respect, I’m hardly going to admit to being a licence holder am I?
never drove a TS got the chance once but looked at it and said no thanks boss lol
Drove a opticruise scania couple times and yes to begin with it was weird to say the least but soon got used to it but must say I couldnt stand it and couldnt wait for the run to finish so I could get out of it. best auto box for me gotta be the ishift but gotta say am getting the hang of the 18 speed eaton fuller box and gotta the best I’ve used
Despite my youthful looks I’ve driven Twin Splitter and think they are bloody awful things. Got the hang of them but never liked them. Probably didn’t help that I was sat in a truck from hell at the time. An ERF.
Autos on the other hand. Love them. Would happily never drive another manual again. All these people that go on about how good the Twin Splitter was but how bad autos are forget something. Like a twin split you should take the time to learn how to driver the auto properly. I had a debate about this on I think the old timers forum a while back where people were slagging autos and how bad they were manoeuvring or hitching up. Some even said you cant do a hill start properly (apparently they use to put an egg under the wheel). I pointed out that give it time to learn an auto and you can hitch up gently, do an egg hill start, back on bays gently etc but none believed me. I joked I would make a video to prove it! Maybe I should. I’m no better a driver than the next man, I just give autos the time of day and learn to get the best from them. Too many of you get in them determined to hate them, so its not surprise when you do.
switchlogic:
Despite my youthful looks I’ve driven Twin Splitter and think they are bloody awful things. Got the hang of them but never liked them. Probably didn’t help that I was sat in a truck from hell at the time. An ERF.
Autos on the other hand. Love them. Would happily never drive another manual again. All these people that go on about how good the Twin Splitter was but how bad autos are forget something. Like a twin split you should take the time to learn how to driver the auto properly. I had a debate about this on I think the old timers forum a while back where people were slagging autos and how bad they were manoeuvring or hitching up. Some even said you cant do a hill start properly (apparently they use to put an egg under the wheel). I pointed out that give it time to learn an auto and you can hitch up gently, do an egg hill start, back on bays gently etc but none believed me. I joked I would make a video to prove it! Maybe I should. I’m no better a driver than the next man, I just give autos the time of day and learn to get the best from them. Too many of you get in them determined to hate them, so its not surprise when you do.
Same here. First thing I look for when I open the door of the truck I’m assigned is a clutch pedal. Powershift in the Mercs is pretty ■■■■ good. There’s nothing it won’t do good enough for me to be happy with it. Reversing fully loaded double deckers round tight bends can get a little iffy but not to the point where it becomes a problem. As for hill starts, piece of ■■■■. You’d have to be some kind of numpty to mess it up.
I’d gladly never drive a manual again.
Juddian:
Yes and that exactly what these automated manaul boxes were designed to do, cruise up and down the motorways with a bloody handful of cardboard boxes on board, soon as you show 'em a bit of hard work they can’t cope and take forever to manage a simple pull out from a busy roundabout.
I’m sure you’re right. But I was referring to when the units were solo. They were both doing trailer swaps so had to trailer on. The Hermes guy was all over the place.
George@ASDA driver:
Saaamon:
You pull away with the clutch and you come to a stop with the clutch, thats it, fairly easy concept to understand even for most simple driver.
who said they didn’t understand the ‘concept’■■?
It’s a [zb] box, it’s lazy, it’s unpredictable and it’s slow. It’s crap.
Just because you struggle with it doesnt mean everyone else does, i personally think its a brilliant gearbox, it does exactly what its ment to do very well.
Having just read the six pages of this thread, there is something nobody has actually remarked on.
Id ask all the manual box lovers to strap a pedometer on or download an app for their smart phone and put it in your left pocket and as a ruff guide see how many times in a day your pressing a clutch.
Yes some of the autos are slow changing and the scania 3 pedal is notoriously slow, the daf autos are pants, the mans are a pita to reverse. The volvo idrive is good tho but maybe people should consider that against worn knee ligaments in later life cause youve been pressing a clutch 300+ times a day thru your working lives and that because of that you maybe need a replacement knee in later life cause the cartlidge is worn out and youve got bone to bone, the autoboxes are actually a real blessing.
Just learn their foibles. They dont like being rushed.
And as for the Eaton twin splitter. What a barrel of laughs that was to get up the gears on a cold n frosty morning when the oil was cold. Not. Easier to knock it into neutral, move the gear selector and punch it back into the same slot.
I liked the twin splitter. Like most people who experienced them, I spent half a trip filling the 'box with iron filings before I got the hang of it. In fact, I had to ring a friend who had a copy of the Eaton tuition video, and he explained how to use it; once I’d got the hang of it, I never looked back. I’d swap anything I’ve driven in the last ten years for an old ERF with a twin split 'box. Seriously.
As for autos … possibly there’s something in what Switch says about people being determined not to like them and consequently not taking the time to learn to use them, but they just don’t appeal to me. Driving a modern truck in auto mode is more like driving a dodgem car than a lorry, and about as interesting. It’s easier, but it’s far less engaging than it was back in the days when we all had manual gearboxes. The main thing I don’t like about autos (at least, the ones I’ve driven: I’ve never driven an ishift equipped truck) is the fact that you can’t use the exhaust brake without the thing dropping down six gears and revving to about four million RPM. That, and the fact that if you try and keep rolling at a roundabout it’ll leave you standing while it searches for a gear or drop into second the instant before you put your foot down, leaving you redlining it at ten mph while everyone on the roundabout shakes their coffee beans at you. I drive my DAF auto in manual, which avoids some of these problems, but I’d swap it tomorrow for a 4/4 manual with a splitter.
shaunomercy:
Having just read the six pages of this thread, there is something nobody has actually remarked on.
Id ask all the manual box lovers to strap a pedometer on or download an app for their smart phone and put it in your left pocket and as a ruff guide see how many times in a day your pressing a clutch.
Yes some of the autos are slow changing and the scania 3 pedal is notoriously slow, the daf autos are pants, the mans are a pita to reverse. The volvo idrive is good tho but maybe people should consider that against worn knee ligaments in later life cause youve been pressing a clutch 300+ times a day thru your working lives and that because of that you maybe need a replacement knee in later life cause the cartlidge is worn out and youve got bone to bone, the autoboxes are actually a real blessing.
Just learn their foibles. They dont like being rushed.
And as for the Eaton twin splitter. What a barrel of laughs that was to get up the gears on a cold n frosty morning when the oil was cold. Not. Easier to knock it into neutral, move the gear selector and punch it back into the same slot.
Yep, couldn’t agree more. Drove Merc 2437 with Eaton Fuller Road Ranger 16 speed box for over a year and was then given an I-shift equipped Volvo. Guess which one I prefer? 
Double de-clutching and engine revving on every down shift gets real old real fast when doing mostly metro work. They’re alright for distance work and probably won’t break, though.
On the other hand, using the clutch a lot probably helps avoid DVT. 
Rhythm Thief:
The main thing I don’t like about autos (at least, the ones I’ve driven: I’ve never driven an ishift equipped truck) is the fact that you can’t use the exhaust brake without the thing dropping down six gears and revving to about four million RPM.
The scanias automatically engage the exhaust brake by feathering the brake pedal. However if you press the button on the floor it will cog down. The volvo and renaults have a selector and you select how much exhaust / engine braking you have available. The volvos and renaults wont kick down and bury the rev counter unless you set them to do that.
As for volvo idrive. That’s the best automated system to date imho. Ive never driven a truck that changes gear so quickly and gets to top speed so efficiently.
As for erfs and twin splits. You can keep em. Pieces of crap. Next you will be saying you liked the road trains cause the wine / howl off the diff sounded like the howl of the vulcan bomber on take off.
