Motorways are safer by a very long way than A or B roads.
independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho … 01269.html
While 99 per cent of motorways are rated in the “'low risk” category, 97 per cent of single carriageway A-roads are not. The report, compiled by the Road Safety Foundation (RSF), also identified Britain’s 10 most dangerous roads, with the A537 in Cheshire and Derbyshire at the top of the list.
green456:
kitbuilder123:
speedyguy:
kitbuilder123:
People need to be trained in what to do when on the hard shoulder.
What I used to do in that situation is pull up 20ft behind the breakdown, beacons, hazards, everything on. Start putting out cones, 3 or 4 feet into the slow lane and working back toward the hard shoulder. Then pull the van up to about 10 feet of the breakdown, half in, half out of the slow lane, effectively blocking that lane and lock the steering in toward the barrier.Patently wrong in fact I’m pretty sure unlawful.
If it went t:ts up I really wouldn’t want to be in your shoes in the witness box
Why so?
because members of the public are not allowed to obstruct and shut a motorway
See above for quick answer and when/if I get some time I’ll have a root through the relevant legislation /road traffic act/TSRGD regulations, unless of course you can tell me under what authority you are placing cones on the highway 
Seeing as you are already doing it 
Just seems bloody stupid to me that people can learn to drive a car or motorbike and pass the test to get a licence for said vehicle that enables them to ride it on a motorway without ever actually having any training for driving/riding on a motorway.
dreamingofoz:
Just seems bloody stupid to me that people can learn to drive a car or motorbike and pass the test to get a licence for said vehicle that enables them to ride it on a motorway without ever actually having any training for driving/riding on a motorway.
Do we then have a motorway simulator as part of the test, or close a number of test centes in Wales, Eaat Anglia and other parts of the country where no motorway is available and insist people travel to test centres closer to motorways.
How do we get round it ?
In the past had stopped behind a vehicle on the HS with the driving instructor talking to his pupil about motorway phones, It didn’t seem a very intelligent place for an instructor to stop for a chat.
speedyguy:
green456:
kitbuilder123:
speedyguy:
kitbuilder123:
People need to be trained in what to do when on the hard shoulder.
What I used to do in that situation is pull up 20ft behind the breakdown, beacons, hazards, everything on. Start putting out cones, 3 or 4 feet into the slow lane and working back toward the hard shoulder. Then pull the van up to about 10 feet of the breakdown, half in, half out of the slow lane, effectively blocking that lane and lock the steering in toward the barrier.Patently wrong in fact I’m pretty sure unlawful.
If it went t:ts up I really wouldn’t want to be in your shoes in the witness box
Why so?
because members of the public are not allowed to obstruct and shut a motorway
See above for quick answer and when/if I get some time I’ll have a root through the relevant legislation /road traffic act/TSRGD regulations, unless of course you can tell me under what authority you are placing cones on the highway
Seeing as you are already doing it
Used to do it, don’t work at it anymore. Doing it under the I don’t want to be killed while trying to get an obstruction off the hard shoulder common sense legislation. If police came, which they did on occasion, 99% would put there blue beacon thingys on my cones and park patrol car at the back for my safety.
Maybe I was breaking the law, I don’t know, but I’m ok with that because it gave me some safety.
And another fatality on the H/S yesterday
theargus.co.uk/news/11146286 … um=twitter
kitbuilder123:
Doing it under the I don’t want to be killed while trying to get an obstruction off the hard shoulder common sense legislation. If police came, which they did on occasion, 99% would put there blue beacon thingys on my cones and park patrol car at the back for my safety.
Maybe I was breaking the law, I don’t know, but I’m ok with that because it gave me some safety.
As we often mention lorry drivers being too close to each other, imagine the scenario. 4 LGV’s in convoy, the first sees your attempt at a partial lane closure and moves over, lorry 2 cant see it as he is only 4ft from the back of lorry 1 so he hits your vehicle and turns to the right too late and collides with whatever is overtaking him at the time. Lorry 3 hits you and the parked vehicle you are dealing with as he turns left to avoid lorry 2, lorry 4 almost becomes immaterial as the carnage being wrought around him makes him a passenger for his impending RTC.
Maybe you might think about how the Police, Traffic Management companies and HA lay out a lane closure, the fact it takes at least 15 minutes to do it correctly, within certain rules, not guidelines but rules to avoid the scenario above whatever the convoy of LGV’s is doing. As for the Police putting their force field of blue lights on your cones, i imagine thats the quickest way they can think of to improve everyone elses safety.
This all boils down how ppl have been taught to drive ,atm they are so happy to allow ppl into a car, drive around local streets and dual carriage ways and that’s about it and that’s about it in preparation for a test
As you all know, once you’ve passed you can use the motorways without any training or assessment which in my view is stupid… maybe the DSA needs to reconsider the whole test for new car drivers to incorporate a percentage of motorway driving included in the test or simpler don’t let newly qualified drivers on the motorways until they pass a test…
Surprising how many ppl pull up on the motorway, swinging the drivers door open without looking, then swaggering out like they own the road without any idea of fast moving traffic… they just seem to think that cars will pull into lane 2 to avoid them…
End of they day ppl don’t really know how and when to use the hard shoulder… they even have trouble knowing how to join and exit a motorway without endangering other road users
There was some twit car driver last night who’d managed to park up with his lights all off right at the end of one of those shallow laybys in the A14 Newmarket bypass stretch, eastbound.
Luckily I’m wide awake, and just pulled into the centre lane to get around it sticking out into lane one by about a foot as it was.
Parking like that is just asking for someone a little less on the ball to come bombing down the road heading for Felixstowe, and it’s gonna be a wipeout. 
There’s too many cars with young guy only getting out, diddling his phone, having a ■■■■ in the bushes - or worse - “not” on his own, but getting their kiddie out on the carriageway side FFS to have a wee! 
helmik:
kitbuilder123:
Doing it under the I don’t want to be killed while trying to get an obstruction off the hard shoulder common sense legislation. If police came, which they did on occasion, 99% would put there blue beacon thingys on my cones and park patrol car at the back for my safety.
Maybe I was breaking the law, I don’t know, but I’m ok with that because it gave me some safety.As we often mention lorry drivers being too close to each other, imagine the scenario. 4 LGV’s in convoy, the first sees your attempt at a partial lane closure and moves over, lorry 2 cant see it as he is only 4ft from the back of lorry 1 so he hits your vehicle and turns to the right too late and collides with whatever is overtaking him at the time. Lorry 3 hits you and the parked vehicle you are dealing with as he turns left to avoid lorry 2, lorry 4 almost becomes immaterial as the carnage being wrought around him makes him a passenger for his impending RTC.
Maybe you might think about how the Police, Traffic Management companies and HA lay out a lane closure, the fact it takes at least 15 minutes to do it correctly, within certain rules, not guidelines but rules to avoid the scenario above whatever the convoy of LGV’s is doing. As for the Police putting their force field of blue lights on your cones, i imagine thats the quickest way they can think of to improve everyone elses safety.
Ok I take the point.
So the trucks on the hard shoulder and I’m working at the back right hand corner, no van, no cones, nothing but a hi vis. And along come your four buddies, 4ft apart.
1st one sees me late and swerves out, clipping the car, 2nd one swerves left to avoid the first one and hits the breakdown, and me. 3 and 4 is your guess.
Yes you can say call the road authority to close it or whatever. But in the real world it doesn’t happen.
Put it like this, your wife and 2 kids get a puncture on the 25 at say 9pm. It’s bucketing rain, she’s out of bottles, there both scared and your miles away. And I arrive on, put my van between her and the traffic, put out my cones to try and warn if the van, put myself in danger to change her wheel. My apologies for doing it wrong
kitbuilder123:
helmik:
kitbuilder123:
Doing it under the I don’t want to be killed while trying to get an obstruction off the hard shoulder common sense legislation. If police came, which they did on occasion, 99% would put there blue beacon thingys on my cones and park patrol car at the back for my safety.
Maybe I was breaking the law, I don’t know, but I’m ok with that because it gave me some safety.As we often mention lorry drivers being too close to each other, imagine the scenario. 4 LGV’s in convoy, the first sees your attempt at a partial lane closure and moves over, lorry 2 cant see it as he is only 4ft from the back of lorry 1 so he hits your vehicle and turns to the right too late and collides with whatever is overtaking him at the time. Lorry 3 hits you and the parked vehicle you are dealing with as he turns left to avoid lorry 2, lorry 4 almost becomes immaterial as the carnage being wrought around him makes him a passenger for his impending RTC.
Maybe you might think about how the Police, Traffic Management companies and HA lay out a lane closure, the fact it takes at least 15 minutes to do it correctly, within certain rules, not guidelines but rules to avoid the scenario above whatever the convoy of LGV’s is doing. As for the Police putting their force field of blue lights on your cones, i imagine thats the quickest way they can think of to improve everyone elses safety.Ok I take the point.
So the trucks on the hard shoulder and I’m working at the back right hand corner, no van, no cones, nothing but a hi vis. And along come your four buddies, 4ft apart.
1st one sees me late and swerves out, clipping the car, 2nd one swerves left to avoid the first one and hits the breakdown, and me. 3 and 4 is your guess.Yes you can say call the road authority to close it or whatever. But in the real world it doesn’t happen.
Put it like this, your wife and 2 kids get a puncture on the 25 at say 9pm. It’s bucketing rain, she’s out of bottles, there both scared and your miles away. And I arrive on, put my van between her and the traffic, put out my cones to try and warn if the van, put myself in danger to change her wheel. My apologies for doing it wrong
His wife and Kids aren’t your problem, I’ve done exactly as you state same conditions but 10am, for a woman and 2 toddlers reported by a passing recovery driver and dragged through a disciplinary investigation, I bet your partner/kids wouldn’t be impressed if you didn’t come home one night or lost your job and house.
Anyway I sit in the office at the moment because it’s a ■■■■ sight safer 
It seems to me that almost everyone has to learn for themselves, sometimes with fatal results. The Police don’t often stop with cars anymore and yet when I do easily 50% of the time its not for a genuine reason. I explain the error of their ways and as usual, with the lack of respect us HATO’s get, they snub their noses at us and couldn’t care less just driving off. Many HATO’s have said that we should have the powers to ticket illegal hard shoulder stops, not for the money but because people just don’t learn and are too stupid to see the danger. Hitting them with a fine is one thing then when the message is passed on to their family and friends, the message will hopefully get across. Having said that, we are reporting trucks stopping on on slips to DVSA (VOSA) now yet some still do it and I mean English drivers too before that row starts.
It always takes something like this to start a debate yet as HATO’s we debate it all the time but it is usually ignored. We’re not Police, we know that, but for the sake of safety something needs to be done. Don’t forget, every time we stop, we are putting our lives at risk too. The comment earlier about 4 trucks in convoy and not seeing happens to me almost every time I put out a closure, truck 1 leaves it until he’s almost on top of my cones, truck 2 then locks up, takes a few cones out and the motorway stops, goes back to the thread about ignoring our signs.
Smoggie89:
NewLad:
How can people go from learning to drive, where the biggest road you have been on is possibly the A38 or some road similar, to having to deal with and be comfortable on roads like the M1, M25, M4, M5, M6, M62 etc, etc. When I think back to when I passed my car test, I wasn’t too fazed by driving on the motorways. I’d had quite a bit of experience on the roads from riding motorbikes (125’s) and If I had of broken down, I’d have been up the bank over the armco.It’s madness to think you can pass your test in Boston, Lincolnshire, where the only A road you’ll use is the A15, A16 and A17 to going driving down the M11 to the M25 the day you pass.
I think it’s stupid learners aren’t allowed on motorways (good in other ways) but once you have passed you can go where ever you want , maybe they should have motorway bits in the hazard perception and possibly set up some kind of mock motorway driving somewhere
I know it’s easier said than done …
Not just stupid learners, but most learners
HGV and PCV learners go on motorways though
waynedl:
Smoggie89:
NewLad:
How can people go from learning to drive, where the biggest road you have been on is possibly the A38 or some road similar, to having to deal with and be comfortable on roads like the M1, M25, M4, M5, M6, M62 etc, etc. When I think back to when I passed my car test, I wasn’t too fazed by driving on the motorways. I’d had quite a bit of experience on the roads from riding motorbikes (125’s) and If I had of broken down, I’d have been up the bank over the armco.It’s madness to think you can pass your test in Boston, Lincolnshire, where the only A road you’ll use is the A15, A16 and A17 to going driving down the M11 to the M25 the day you pass.
I think it’s stupid learners aren’t allowed on motorways (good in other ways) but once you have passed you can go where ever you want , maybe they should have motorway bits in the hazard perception and possibly set up some kind of mock motorway driving somewhere
Not just stupid learners, but most learners
HGV and PCV learners go on motorways though
It’s not compulsory though. I was minutes away from the M6 when I did my training, never went on it though.
Santa:
jobseeker:
The life expectancy of someone sat in their car on the hard shoulder is between 8-26 minutes depending on what figures you look at.And 90% of statistics are made up. In 40 years of driving up and down the motorways I have seen hundreds of people (including myself) on the hard shoulder, not counting the emergency services. Only rarely have I seen where a car has been hit, and I am sure that they were not all fatalities.
I have seen the complaint about the managed motorways before. I drove up and down the M42 daily before and after the HS was converted and laybys added. I think that, with all the monitoring cameras, it was probably safer after than it was before.
I am not so sure that the A38 or the A17 aren’t more dangerous than the M1 either.
I was once driving down the hard shoulder when it was a lane due to congestion and nearly hit a stranded car that didn’t make it to one of those extra little layby’s, there was no warning signs and the lane was still open, I’ve no idea how long it had been there but the people were out of the car, so it hadn’t just happened if you know what I mean.
Rooster:
Shoud the police pull you over on the hard shoulder and question you, or if possible ■■■■■■ you to a safer location, ie sevices etc ?
I got an absolute BLASTING off a copper once, who was going to arrest me for not stopping when indicated on the hard shoulder!
i had my (very young at the time) son in the back seat in his car seat, and i told the copper i was NOT under any circumstances going to leave him on the hard shoulder to get splattered by a HGV, and that if he was going to persist with my arrest he had better get his sargeant down here pretty fast to discuss the matter first…
He backed down VERY sharpish! 
silly twit only pulled me because i activated the ANPR for no MOT… Id passed the MOT test that morning, and a quick phone call confirmed it! 
Ive also instructed the wife, that she ISNT to stop for any police officer after dark, unless shes in a public place (services ETC) and not to open the door until she has confirmed the identity of the officer by telephone!
B…
Waynedl, did you call it in on hail or 999?
waynedl:
I was once driving down the hard shoulder when it was a lane due to congestion and nearly hit a stranded car that didn’t make it to one of those extra little layby’s, there was no warning signs and the lane was still open, I’ve no idea how long it had been there but the people were out of the car, so it hadn’t just happened if you know what I mean.
So you were driving competently and within the distance you could see and react
If you had hit the vehicle do you think you should have been done for driving without due care and attention.
Was this you in the video
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=106244
waynedl:
I was once driving down the hard shoulder when it was a lane due to congestion and nearly hit a stranded car that didn’t make it to one of those extra little layby’s, there was no warning signs and the lane was still open, I’ve no idea how long it had been there but the people were out of the car, so it hadn’t just happened if you know what I mean.
This is gonna haunt ya !!! 
speedyguy:
waynedl:
I was once driving down the hard shoulder when it was a lane due to congestion and nearly hit a stranded car that didn’t make it to one of those extra little layby’s, there was no warning signs and the lane was still open, I’ve no idea how long it had been there but the people were out of the car, so it hadn’t just happened if you know what I mean.So you were driving competently and within the distance you could see and react
If you had hit the vehicle do you think you should have been done for driving without due care and attention.
Was this you in the video
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=106244
No, since that isn’t even a managed motorway
