ERF:
newmercman:
ERF you are banging your head against a wall as far as CF is concerned…Well, as expected, you were spot on!.
It’s almost as if I can see into the future!
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ERF-NGC-European:
How to be a successful troll and go undetected for years
- Masquerade as a knowledgeable expert
- Infiltrate as many threads as possible
- Criticise everything in sight
- Mount unwarranted attacks on as many ideas and transport products as you can
- To avoid detection, observe the forum rules and never attack a poster
- Ruthlessly and relentlessly disrupt healthy debate with non-sequiturs, disinformation and conspiracy theories
- Rubbish sound theories and good ideas and quickly move the goalposts to make counter criticisms look less credible
- When good forum members give up and stop posting, move quickly to a flourishing thread
Robert
1 No more of a knowledgeable expert than any other ‘driver’ on a ‘drivers’ forum.Although a background in truck manufacturing might help regarding some discussions.
2.Only comment on those threads that I’ve got something to contribute to.
3.Criticise only what can be criticised along accepted engineering practice.You know simple stuff like don’t gear a turbo ■■■■■■■ for 2,000 rpm + at 50 mph and a 13 speed box is better to keep a tight control over engine speeds than 9.Or in this case a poxy 12-13 litre V8 with a 114 mm stroke will be a grenade if put into service hauling 32t all over the country.
4.Give credit to numerous good designs again along the lines of accepted engineering practice.
5.Attack the post not the poster which obviously includes not calling anyone who disagrees with me a troll.
6.Draw logical conclusions when all others make no sense.You know things like Stokes wasn’t employed by Leyland as just a ‘salesman’ and would also have known,understood and been working to accepted engineering practice as part of his training and qualifications.Which means knowing the difference between the design requirements for a heavy truck engine v an F1 racing car.
7 Don’t rubbish anything just question it however inconvenient.
8 Why would/should anyone stop posting based on what any one else has posted.
I for one was one of those put off this thread which was a shame as I had an interest having worked on this engine as a youngster and found the posts ERF wrote especially very interesting, the engine I worked on had to have the headgaskets changed and as an AEC dealership we had word of the overheating problems of what was then a much discussed vehicle. I can say the vehicle ran beautifully once repaired and certainly nothing passed us on our test to Scotch Corner and back to Newcastle, the Gaffer waited with baited breath though as he wanted shot of it back to Southall if it had no further problems. That was the last I ever saw of a V8 Mandator and likely the Northeast hauliers either dipped out on an impressive tool or considered themselves fortunate which ever way you look at it as it was intended to demo the unit in the area. I’ve included an advert page for the V8 Mandator and it is noticeable the small area the radiator occupies. Lets hope this thread can continue with some sensible interaction. Cheers Franky.
No chaps you cant get rid of me that easy,ive just been ■■■■■■■ with work commitments.I feel I may have dragged this superb thread down a touch by turning it into a pi.sing contest by comparing engines which has by my view been completely pointless and thus I have no further interest in replying as things seem to get distorted and further demote from the thread.What I will say is full credit to ERF as the story is amazing.Obviously I’m still interested in the AEC saga but without BS from the oracle.
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
How to be a successful troll and go undetected for years
- Masquerade as a knowledgeable expert
- Infiltrate as many threads as possible
- Criticise everything in sight
- Mount unwarranted attacks on as many ideas and transport products as you can
- To avoid detection, observe the forum rules and never attack a poster
- Ruthlessly and relentlessly disrupt healthy debate with non-sequiturs, disinformation and conspiracy theories
- Rubbish sound theories and good ideas and quickly move the goalposts to make counter criticisms look less credible
- When good forum members give up and stop posting, move quickly to a flourishing thread
Robert
5.Attack the post not the poster which obviously includes not calling anyone who disagrees with me a troll.
Really? I don’t remember calling you a troll. I don’t remember refering to you personally at all. Is this suddenly all about CF? But if the cap fits, wear it! R
Another most informative account of a particularly important restoration by ERF - Thank you for not just taking on the project but for taking the time to share the details with us. There are so many questions I would like to ask, but I am sure most will be answered in due course without having started another diatribe against the aec in the meantime.
Carryfast:
8 Why would/should anyone stop posting based on what any one else has posted.
An excellent question CF, if I may say so.
Having given this several long seconds of thought, I can only conclude that there must be some highly intolerant individuals on this forum who possibly take exception to the bigoted diatribe peddled out by others.
I’m sure you have seen the type of posts to which I refer, like where the relevant opinions of accomplished professionals are completely and utterly ridiculed and ignored.
Like where actual practical experience and solid research flys in the face of others theories.
Like where highly successful commercial products are belittled by repeated use of flaccid cliché’s, just because the ‘contributor’ doesn’t like them…
That would be my guess.
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
How to be a successful troll and go undetected for years
- Masquerade as a knowledgeable expert
- Infiltrate as many threads as possible
- Criticise everything in sight
- Mount unwarranted attacks on as many ideas and transport products as you can
- To avoid detection, observe the forum rules and never attack a poster
- Ruthlessly and relentlessly disrupt healthy debate with non-sequiturs, disinformation and conspiracy theories
- Rubbish sound theories and good ideas and quickly move the goalposts to make counter criticisms look less credible
- When good forum members give up and stop posting, move quickly to a flourishing thread
Robert
5.Attack the post not the poster which obviously includes not calling anyone who disagrees with me a troll.
Really? I don’t remember calling you a troll. I don’t remember refering to you personally at all. Is this suddenly all about CF? But if the cap fits, wear it! R
I don’t remember mentioning you personally either.Although maybe the mods should have a go at you for making a totally pointless off topic post. 
cav551:
?..There are so many questions I would like to ask, but I am sure most will be answered in due course…
Thanks everyone for the positive comments.
If any questions remain unanswered, please do ask. I don’t claim to have all the answers by any means, but will help where I can provide a response formulated from practical experience!.
ERF:
Carryfast:
8 Why would/should anyone stop posting based on what any one else has posted.An excellent question CF, if I may say so.
Having given this several long seconds of thought, I can only conclude that there must be some highly intolerant individuals on this forum who possibly take exception to the bigoted diatribe peddled out by others.
I’m sure you have seen the type of posts to which I refer, like where the relevant opinions of accomplished professionals are completely and utterly ridiculed and ignored.
Like where actual practical experience and solid research flys in the face of others theories.
Like where highly successful commercial products are belittled by repeated use of flaccid cliché’s, just because the ‘contributor’ doesn’t like them…That would be my guess.
Blimey next you’ll be saying exactly the same thing about all the truck engine designers to date for not enthusiastically following AEC’s zb’d up design ideas.
The only ridicule and misrepresentation I’m seeing here is that of Stokes’ involvement in all this and his engineering knowledge,to save face for those others who really were to blame for it.
As for ‘solid research’ flying in the face of accepted practice.Yes it showed and history proved it.As I said don’t go trying pull 32t around the country with the job when you’ve finished it.Just as it should have been derated and used as a replacement for the even worse 500 fixed head wonder in the day.Sorry if the facts don’t fit the fan boy script.
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
How to be a successful troll and go undetected for years
- Masquerade as a knowledgeable expert
- Infiltrate as many threads as possible
- Criticise everything in sight
- Mount unwarranted attacks on as many ideas and transport products as you can
- To avoid detection, observe the forum rules and never attack a poster
- Ruthlessly and relentlessly disrupt healthy debate with non-sequiturs, disinformation and conspiracy theories
- Rubbish sound theories and good ideas and quickly move the goalposts to make counter criticisms look less credible
- When good forum members give up and stop posting, move quickly to a flourishing thread
Robert
5.Attack the post not the poster which obviously includes not calling anyone who disagrees with me a troll.
Really? I don’t remember calling you a troll. I don’t remember refering to you personally at all. Is this suddenly all about CF? But if the cap fits, wear it! R
I don’t remember mentioning you personally either.Although maybe the mods should have a go at you for making a totally pointless off topic post.
Refer to point 7: moving the goalposts. R
Ok gentlemen, it’s time to draw a line under Carryfastgate. It is beyond any doubt that he is bonkers, but he is as entitled to his opinions and is as free to post them here as any of us. That’s called free speech.
If you go back to any of the threads he’s infected with his version of events, you will see that he has driven people to delve deeper into their memory or documentation in order to prove him wrong and as such his ramblings have increased the genuinely factual information shared on the threads and that is a good thing.
He’s not going to go away and nobody can change his mind so ignore what he writes, or present facts to shoot his madness down in flames, just don’t expect it to do any good where he’s concerned, but the rest of the readers will find the information very interesting and learn a thing or two.
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The casting changes to the cylinder heads in response to overheating issues raise an interesting point. It is also noticeable that AEC engines normally had siamesed exhaust ports. From the pictures of the head’s top face it appears that in the case of the V8 the inlets are siamesed, it is not clear if both valves were. There seem to be references in the tale of the AEC V8 to involvement by Ricardo’s. In the 1968 revision of SI Harry’s " The High Speed Intenal Combustion Engine" reference is made to: “a lack of explanation having yet been found to a 'thermal barrier which frequently (but not always) exists on the water side of ‘as cast’ cast-iron cylinder heads”. Quite possibly this statement indicates his company’s involvement. Of note its that future AEC engine development concentrates on coolant flow, which had raised its head some decades earlier.
I started this thread to find out more about the V8 Mandator. I had heard many tales about its startling performance and also the problems whilst in service. I wanted to know about its development from the early stages right through to its demise. We have some great contributors on this thread ,that have researched and shared their knowledge, worked on engines and understand them inside out and now a restorer who worked with them and if it is the guy I think it is has restored at least one before and put a Fuller behind it ( I could be wrong there 
) and is now well on with another and trying to eradicate the problems that originally plagued them. Id like to thank all the aforementioned for helping me understand the ins and outs of the V8 from Southall and also the drivers who remembered them on the road and contributed to this thread . I for one cant wait for the next chapter in the restoration from ERF ,thanks again to all who have contributed
newmercman:
Ok gentlemen, it’s time to draw a line under Carryfastgate. It is beyond any doubt that he is bonkers
The idea that British industry was deliberately sacrificed to meet the aims of US economic and foreign policy or that the AEC V8 should have been derated and used to replace the headless wonder.Isn’t as bonkers as the idea that a few token retro modifications in preservation will cure its inherent design flaws in the form of the measurements they chose to build the thing to.Let alone safe in the knowledge that the claims can/will never be put to the test as they could be/were in the day .
ramone:
…and now a restorer who worked with them and if it is the guy I think it is has restored at least one before and put a Fuller behind it ( I could be wrong there
If you are referring to Steve Mayle, then yes, you are absolutely correct, he has fully restored a V8 before (with his son Johnny), and he did indeed put a Fuller RTO609 behind it. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, knows more about the Mandator V8 than Steve does, and nobody in this country restores lorries to a higher standard than he does (and believe me, I don’t make that statement lightly). Steve was, and still is, the only person I have complete trust in to work on my V8, and as I hope you agree when the finished lorry appears on these pages, I made the right choice.
If there is still interest once the engine story has concluded, I will tell the epic restoration tale of the chassis frame, the gearbox, the suspension…and last but not least, the 18 months of self inflicted hard labour on the cab by yours truly!.
DEANB:
What year was the V8 first made ?
The prototype engines were first fitted into adapted Mandator chassis in 1965, and were sent out for evaluation in 1966.
The production Mandator V8 was launched in 1968, and withdrawn from sale early in 1970.
Carryfast, the intention is to restore the lorry to its original state, if you had take the time to read the posts from ERF, you would know that the plan was to use the original heads.
Do you really believe that he is going to the trouble and expense of sourcing two sets of modified heads in order to prove you wrong? If so it appears that you hold your opinion in higher regard than every other living human.
By all means carry on exercising your right to free speech, but don’t be under any illusion that your contributions have any meaningful content.
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ERF:
ramone:
…and now a restorer who worked with them and if it is the guy I think it is has restored at least one before and put a Fuller behind it ( I could be wrong thereIf you are referring to Steve Mayle, then yes, you are absolutely correct, he has fully restored a V8 before (with his son Johnny), and he did indeed put a Fuller RTO609 behind it. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, knows more about the Mandator V8 than Steve does, and nobody in this country restores lorries to a higher standard than he does (and believe me, I don’t make that statement lightly). Steve was, and still is, the only person I have complete trust in to work on my V8, and as I hope you agree when the finished lorry appears on these pages, I made the right choice.
If there is still interest once the engine story has concluded, I will tell the epic restoration tale of the chassis frame, the gearbox, the suspension…and last but not least, the 18 months of self inflicted hard labour on the cab by yours truly!.
Oh there’s interest in the story, no doubt about that, I suggest you start a new thread and I will personally take charge of it to ensure it doesn’t descend into chaos.
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