"Action in Transport" FaceBook Group

[scanner]

JokerXL:
Why so anti?
What have you done lately to even attempt to influence the course of what’s happening to your sector?
Is this what you do - sit behind a keyboard scoffing at the well- meant actions of others?
There are people out there sticking their heads above the parapet, giving up their time and effort, and you just sit there and snigger?
Quite pathetic.
The actions these people have the balls to get up and take today will help secure your job in the future, just remember that.
And the remark about the Romanians, the Hungarians? That tells me so much about you. Think man!! Read what has been said, try to digest it, it really isn’t that difficult.

Look, it’s not about me. I live in the Netherlands, I have a good, well paid job with a decent employer. I’m trying to set up a group in the UK that can help people like you that don’t want to get involved. People that don’t “get it”.
If the UK transport industry goes down the pan without you guys having lifted a finger to stop it, then fine, you get what you deserve.

The link is there, join the group, or don’t, I really couldn’t care less.

I’m not anti, people should be free to do what they want. I’ve done nothing to attempt to influence the course of what’s happening in my sector, I’m not naive enough to think that I can change it.

I’m not sniggering, scoffing or sitting behind a keyboard. I am however, wondering about the brave boys and girls “sticking their heads above the parapet” and what they think this will achieve. Indeed, quite pathetic.

Nothing these people are doing today will affect me or my future in any way. Did they protest when you took a job from a Dutch driver? Did you ever envisage that the day would come when people would block the roads because other people were doing exactly what you had done?

Who mentioned Hungarians? What does my remark tell you about me? I’m interested now.

The UK transport industry has been “going down the pan” ever since I can remember. Strangely, it’s somehow still here. Maybe that’s because people still buy and sell things that need moving around.

I too have a well paid job with a top employer. Guess what, they’re not a UK firm, oh no! I have to go and do my job now, but I’ll be back later.

Remember, Europe is Europe, you can’t just take the bits you like.

[derf]

So joker, it’s OK for you to move to the Netherlands and drive a truck, but not an Eastern European?

A little bit hypocritical complaining about it isn’t it??

Not only that, once upon a time the British and Dutch were the pioneers of going to far flung countries and doing the sorts of runs no other nationalities would do. Now the people from those countries that Dutch and UK companies made a handsome living from (or rather the nations those countries became) are doing exactly the same but in the other direction, the UK and Netherlands are screaming foul play. Strikes me you all want to hunt with the hounds and run with the fox.

Do what I say and not what I do eh?

[jokerxl]

Ok Scanner & Derf.
Firstly, and again, please read what’s been said earlier. This isn’t about blocking freedom of movement or employment within the EU. Opening up the borders has been a massive positive. I’m old enough to remember when every internal European border was as much hassle to get accross as the UK’s thankfully those days are over.
Here’s how it works, maybe get a responsible adult to explain it for you;
I work for a Dutch company, for Dutch wages. My Dutch colleagues don’t see me as a threat, they don’t begrudge me my position, because the only reason I’m there is on merit, not because I cost 1/3 they do.
The problem, and here’s the bit you may need help with understanding, is with low-wage Eastern European countries sending cheap labour to do transport work in our (higher cost) countries. There’s no gripe with a Polish company bringing goods from Poland to Rotterdam, with a cheaper crew, and picking up a load out of Antwerp to take back to Gdansk. No problem at all, never has been.
The opening of all those low-wage country’s borders has had unforeseen conepsequences. The ideology is sound, the same ideology that allows me to work in NL freely, or you to apply for a job in Paris. What Brussels missed was how the job market in the (dearer) West would be negatively affected by the same relaxation of border controls and freedoms of movement & labour.
Unless and until the Eastern European country’s economies level-out to a similar state as ours - cost of living, wages - this policy needs to be reconsidered.

Now, please re-read what I’ve said, maybe a couple of times, before you go off on one again, you really are making yourselves look a bit thick.

[derf]

so what’s the difference between an Eastern European company undercutting to get a job and a UK company losing a contract to a competitor on price?

It’s a free market economy. Transport companies get work mainly on price. If your boss wins works, inevitably there will be another haulier somewhere who either lost that work or didn’t get it because your boss could do it cheaper. Eastern European labour is simply an extension of that.

Things evolve and change, the influx of Eastern European labour is part of that, evolution has been going on for billions of years. you need to adapt and evolve with it or become extinct. If the industry is in the dire straights you say, get out and do something else.

If your company lost work to another local haulier on price alone (assuming your utopia of only indigenous people being employed by them), would you rather your boss adapts and changes to the situation he now finds himself in, or would you rather he simply moans about it and tries organising a go slow on a social networking site which certainly won’t get the work back for himself or his staff…

(having a differing opinion to your own does not make me thick. Throwing insults does nothing but dilute your opinion as rhetoric)

[truckyboy]

Tell them, theyre wasting their time, when the fuel protests were on…did it bring down the costs…NO
When the transport strike was on…did it change things…NO

And if you want to stop the cheap foreign labour…leave the EU, then you can make up your own rules ( which the dutch normally do anyway, when it suits them )
When Brussels set up the rules, they stated that ALL EU member states citizens, can live and WORK, in any other member states, most Eastern Bloc countries, that are EU members, fulfill their dreams, the same as other nationalities, like the BRITISH, who live and work in other countries…Like the DUTCH, who live and work in other countries, so any protest is not going to achieve anything, maybe a days lost wages, so just learn that cheap labour has been used in many industries since trade began, China, Korea, Japan, most of the far east anyway, and including the Eastern Bloc and Turkey, and nothing is gonna change that, wherever one may reside.

[littlesplitpin]

But if every single truck stopped for a couple hours, nothing was moving, what could they do then? It would be them in the loss it’s just a shame that most people on here can’t be bothered with the hassle of a protest so they always end up lightly in the publics eyes.

Lets be honest, this country has never made the government have to really think about what they are doing for a long time.

Maybe it’s time for people to do that?

[jokerxl]

Derf:
so what’s the difference between an Eastern European company undercutting to get a job and a UK company losing a contract to a competitor on price?

It’s a free market economy. Transport companies get work mainly on price. If your boss wins works, inevitably there will be another haulier somewhere who either lost that work or didn’t get it because your boss could do it cheaper. Eastern European labour is simply an extension of that.

Things evolve and change, the influx of Eastern European labour is part of that, evolution has been going on for billions of years. you need to adapt and evolve with it or become extinct. If the industry is in the dire straights you say, get out and do something else.

If your company lost work to another local haulier on price alone (assuming your utopia of only indigenous people being employed by them), would you rather your boss adapts and changes to the situation he now finds himself in, or would you rather he simply moans about it and tries organising a go slow on a social networking site which certainly won’t get the work back for himself or his staff…

(having a differing opinion to your own does not make me thick. Throwing insults does nothing but dilute your opinion as rhetoric)

The difference, once again Derf, is the massive differences in economies. A German working in France will demand the same wages, or very similar, to a Frenchman, this Englishman working in NL is no threat to a Dutch employee, they get that, you seem to have a huge problem grasping the concept -Romanian = needs €300,- to get by
Belgian = needs €3000,- to get by

Having a different opinion does not make you thick, no, absolutely not. In fact, I think we are of the same opinion - that the EU as a whole has offered freedoms of movement (of labour) and that’s cool. What lets me suspect there is a problem with your intellect is that you keep coming back with the same nonsense without, apparently, having grasped what it was I said in the previous quote, or not having bothered to read it, which is possibly worse.

As far as respect goes;
Respect is a privilege, not a right. I’ll respect any man that deserves to be respected.

[derf]

The scale of economy is irrelevant, the problem that is complained about at great length on various threads on here is one of ‘Eastern Europeans coming here and stealing our jobs’ If they undercut a UK company by £10 or £1,000 they’ll still get the work. The scale of the reduction is irrelevant, it’s the fact the price has been reduced that wins the work.

No one went running to Facebook or threatening go slows 15 - 20 years ago when the myth that Stobarts were going in and taking work from small / medium regional hauliers by considerably slashing the rate, and they were using UK drivers. The feeling was they were undercutting by some considerable margin to secure the work, indeed by Stobarts own admission they said they didn’t profit from transport, all the money was made on warehousing.
Fact is it’s how a free market economy works. I suspect you care not one jot that the clothes you’re wearing came from a sweat shop in Bangladesh because the workers there will make the clothes for little more than a bowl of rice, at the expense of UK / European textile workers (remember the cotton mills that used to cover northern England, they all moved to north Africa and India for the very reasons you are complaining about)

If you can’t keep up with the pace of evolution in whatever sphere you are in, either move into something else or go under. Unfortunately it’s how the world turns and always has.

My point is, and it’s the one you seem to fail to grasp, is that organising a go slow on a social media site is pointless, all the general public will see is a load of UK trucks holding them up while a load of Eastern European registered vehicles whizz past you and get on with the job in hand. Thus in the eyes of those who you really need to sympathise with you, you accomplish exactly the opposite of what you intended to.

[jokerxl]

Ok, I get it.
But rolling over and playing ■■■■■ was never one of my stronger points.
Your industry’s going to crap and you’re quite happy to let it.
Boy did Thatcher do a good job on you!
Very sad. Our fathers would be livid.

I’ll keep on pushing this end, you go make a nice cuppa.

[jokerxl]

Oh, just one more thing before I knock off for today.
The Bangladeshi sweat-shop?
No, I don’t give a flying fig what they’re paid or what their conditions are.
That’s for them to fight for and has absolutely no relevance in this argument.
If however a factory in the UK were set up and thousands of Bangladeshi workers were shipped in AND PAID BANGLADESHI WAGES then yes, there would be a problem.
There is no problem with, for instance, the thousands of Poles that work in Holland and the UK, they’re paid local wages!
We have a Pole driving for us, he’s paid the same wages as we are - not a problem at all.

The integration of Eastern European countries, whose economies are not comparable to ours (yet), has created, perhaps unforeseen, unfair situations that need to be addressed by Brussels.
Nobody said a FaceBook page will ever achieve anything of itself - it is however a massively useful tool of communication. Spreading that word and getting people organized to go out - together - and make their voice be heard in places it needs to be heard.
If you don’t feel up to being part of that, fine, don’t. But please don’t try to pull down those that are willing to stand up and have a go.

[att]

jokerXL…You really are wasting your time on this forum.
The majority are scared of their own shadow and lack any original thought, let alone freedom of thought!
(As a qualified counsellor, I am quite confident of this observation) However, it is not the only forum, the majority of the Brit public have been brainwashed into submission and divide and conquer has and still is the name of the game, which is mostly promoted by the media, as it fits their agenda. (As you probably know, they are owned by the same people who control the largest companies in the world and are in bed with all politicians) There is no escape for the majority of Brits.
As a counsellor, the Govt. set the agenda and that was that you were supposed to ensure clients became working members of society once again, to lessen the drain on benefits.

The social engineering of this country has been quite comprehensive, so when there is a mass demostration, the pent up aggression manifests itself in violence en masse

I doubt this post will get beyond the current pre moderation status that I am on here, so will probably be a waste of time.

That is another indicator of just how bad things are in the UK…The Stazi would be proud of what has been achieved in this country in the last 25 years

[bazstan009]

So is a degree in psycology part of your counsellor qualification.

[att]

bazstan009:
So is a degree in psycology part of your counsellor qualification.

No…It would be far to inhibitive.
An individual has more traits that can ever be attributed to within the confines of psychology.
Psychology is based on familiar traits and behaviour and is too structured to fit any one person.
It is a starting point, but is far too simplistic to be of any use in the understanding of the ‘person’…Once you have gone down that route, it can be difficult to change the path and lead to frustration in yourself and the client.

[mike-c]

JokerXL:
The drivers, who are united within the Actie in de Transport movement, are protesting against (among other things) the unbridled competition from transport companies using cheap Eastern European drivers who are destroying the industry.

Who can do something and what do you think they could do about this ?

[scanner]

Mike-C:

JokerXL:
The drivers, who are united within the Actie in de Transport movement, are protesting against (among other things) the unbridled competition from transport companies using cheap Eastern European drivers who are destroying the industry.

Who can do something and what do you think they could do about this ?

Click “like” if you agree.

[scanner]

JokerXL:
Oh, just one more thing before I knock off for today.
The Bangladeshi sweat-shop?
No, I don’t give a flying fig what they’re paid or what their conditions are.
That’s for them to fight for and has absolutely no relevance in this argument.
If however a factory in the UK were set up and thousands of Bangladeshi workers were shipped in AND PAID BANGLADESHI WAGES then yes, there would be a problem.
There is no problem with, for instance, the thousands of Poles that work in Holland and the UK, they’re paid local wages!
We have a Pole driving for us, he’s paid the same wages as we are - not a problem at all.

The integration of Eastern European countries, whose economies are not comparable to ours (yet), has created, perhaps unforeseen, unfair situations that need to be addressed by Brussels.
Nobody said a FaceBook page will ever achieve anything of itself - it is however a massively useful tool of communication. Spreading that word and getting people organized to go out - together - and make their voice be heard in places it needs to be heard.
If you don’t feel up to being part of that, fine, don’t. But please don’t try to pull down those that are willing to stand up and have a go.

So do you only care about people from Western Europe? Your campaign only applies to people who are white enough? It’s the old story again. People like you always need someone to hate and blame. Irish, Scottish, Welsh were all going to work for nothing and eat your children. Then it was Bangladeshis, Indians, Pakistanis. Then it was Jamaicans, then Nigerians, etc etc etc.

if you think sweatshops don’t exist in the UK and NL you’re dreaming. I have first-hand experience of them in every major city in both of the countries I mentioned. Believe me, the wages are a pittance and sometimes it’s forced labour.

What did you think would happen when the Berlin wall fell? Did you think that would be that and people would wish to continue to live as if still under the communist yoke? Do you think that after hundreds of years of fratricidal wars, Europe should be so unequal as to cause them again? Is that what you want? You would see a fellow European denied the chance of bettering himself? That’s shameful.

You need to look beyond Europe if you want something to worry about. The world is dividing more and more into trading blocs, the stronger and more united we are, the more chance we have against other continents, for that is the future. Your worries about EU member states will pale into insignificance in the years to come.

Feeling up to something and being up to something are two very different things. You would do well to remember that.

[driveroneuk]

Understand and agree with the OP. Basically the cause is why UK truck driver wages are the same or less now than they were 10 years ago.

Many people are very frightened of the unknown, hence a reticence to even look at or consider Facebook. There follows a complete lack of understanding of its powers of communication and informative function, the degree of involvement in which is completely controllable by the user.

[greggy]

I agree with the op.
But just like wot else people in this country don’t give a flying toss.
They are happy to be shafted.

[bazstan009]

att:
jokerXL…You really are wasting your time on this forum.
The majority are scared of their own shadow and lack any original thought, let alone freedom of thought!
(As a qualified counsellor, I am quite confident of this observation)

Still think that this is an unfair generalisation and not given any weight by your qualification, however back to topic.

I am with the op, I have signed up and will offer such support as am able. It may be just a facebook page at this point but that offers like minded people the ability to share views and consolidate ideas.

It is only when people decide to do something to bring about change that change will happen, wont come about by standing on the sidelines moaning.

[flunkey]

It’s very simple-£12.84/month and the Union will Collectively Bargain on your behalf. Pay the money and get the service you want. List your concerns/wants/wishes they put it on paper and negotiate the terms with your employer and come to an Agreement. It called a CBA. You only need a few Drivers/Goods Handlers from each company to join and put forward the proposal-the rest will follow. www.urtu.com