3 wheeler:
stevieboy308:
You can’t opt outDriving hours no you cant, but “other work” means you can in theory do more but must pay it back in the following week …or am I wrong .
Not working due to medical problems means I have forgotten far to much !
The only thing that can be opted out of for the RTD (not the normal WTD) is the night time 10 hour work time limit
ROG:
The only thing I can suggest is using the RTD to reduce the hours worked by only using the other work mode unless having to take a legally required break
Yes i have minimum breaks and never book POA in order to keep my working hours up.
bald bloke:
ROG:
The only thing I can suggest is using the RTD to reduce the hours worked by only using the other work mode unless having to take a legally required breakYes i have minimum breaks and never book POA in order to keep my working hours up.
As the average must be 48 WORKING HOURS per week over say a 26 week period then if you constantly do more than that it will end up with you not being able to legally work for X amount of days or weeks but as you are salaried you will still be paid as per your contract
Lets say you do 5 x 13 hour days with 1 hour of each day being break so that leave 12 hours of working time each day if POA is not used
That is 60 hours of working time each week which is the max under the RTD rules
For every 4 weeks you do that 60 hours means that you need 1 week off to balance it for the average - that could mean doing the 60 for the first 20 weeks with 48 for week 21 and then taking 5 weeks off with salaried pay so that the 26 week reference period balances out to 48 per week
I think my math is ok on this but am prepared to be corrected
ROG:
As the average must be 48 WORKING HOURS per week over say a 26 week period then if you constantly do more than that it will end up with you not being able to legally work for X amount of days or weeks but as you are salaried you will still be paid as per your contract
The trouble is if your average gets too high they still bring you in but you are told to sit in the canteen all day on POA so no cushy day sat at home and being paid for it. 
bald bloke:
ROG:
As the average must be 48 WORKING HOURS per week over say a 26 week period then if you constantly do more than that it will end up with you not being able to legally work for X amount of days or weeks but as you are salaried you will still be paid as per your contractThe trouble is if your average gets too high they still bring you in but you are told to sit in the canteen all day on POA so no cushy day sat at home and being paid for it.
If it is maxed out then you cannot do that because it would mean doing some work which may mean clocking on and off or filling in records for that
Also - there is nothing which says you must by law record POA
ROG:
bald bloke:
ROG:
As the average must be 48 WORKING HOURS per week over say a 26 week period then if you constantly do more than that it will end up with you not being able to legally work for X amount of days or weeks but as you are salaried you will still be paid as per your contractThe trouble is if your average gets too high they still bring you in but you are told to sit in the canteen all day on POA so no cushy day sat at home and being paid for it.
If it is maxed out then you cannot do that because it would mean doing some work which may mean clocking on and off or filling in records for that
Also - there is nothing which says you must by law record POA
I hear what your saying Rog and i know POA is not a legal requirement but if they insist on us doing that i don’t think we can do much about it and work wise clocking in and out and doing a time sheet is literally only 5 minutes work.
bald bloke:
ROG:
bald bloke:
ROG:
As the average must be 48 WORKING HOURS per week over say a 26 week period then if you constantly do more than that it will end up with you not being able to legally work for X amount of days or weeks but as you are salaried you will still be paid as per your contractThe trouble is if your average gets too high they still bring you in but you are told to sit in the canteen all day on POA so no cushy day sat at home and being paid for it.
If it is maxed out then you cannot do that because it would mean doing some work which may mean clocking on and off or filling in records for that
Also - there is nothing which says you must by law record POA
I hear what your saying Rog and i know POA is not a legal requirement but if they insist on us doing that i don’t think we can do much about it and work wise clocking in and out and doing a time sheet is literally only 5 minutes work.
You cannot do 1 minute of work if its already maxed out for the reference period - that would be like saying you must do another few minutes driving when the max 56 for a week has been reached = its illegal
Does it say in your contract that POA must be used ?
ROG:
You cannot do 1 minute of work if its already maxed out for the reference period
I’m aware of that but probably you’d be on 47.40 hours for example so could do a little work time.
ROG:
Does it say in your contract that POA must be used ?
No.
bald bloke:
ROG:
You cannot do 1 minute of work if its already maxed out for the reference periodI’m aware of that but probably you’d be on 47.40 hours for example so could do a little work time.
ROG:
Does it say in your contract that POA must be used ?No.
If the average worked out to 47.40 per week then simply go into work and use up all the .60 bits in one day especially as you are under no legal or company policy obligation to use POA
Use the law to your advantage
ROG:
bald bloke:
ROG:
You cannot do 1 minute of work if its already maxed out for the reference periodI’m aware of that but probably you’d be on 47.40 hours for example so could do a little work time.
ROG:
Does it say in your contract that POA must be used ?No.
If the average worked out to 47.40 per week then simply go into work and use up all the .60 bits in one day especially as you are under no legal or company policy obligation to use POA
Use the law to your advantage
Rog we have a big memo that’s gone up overnight
I’ve got a cushy number this week because I’ve gone above 60 hours about 3 times in a month; Odds and sods yesterday and today, drivers’ mate tomorrow and 4 drops around Edmonton on Thursday. I reckon I’ll still be doing 50-55 hours this week so I doubt it’ll dent my averages.
I can’t see how they can tell you to have the minimum breaks,what if you felt tired and had an hour instead of a 45? So you could have a snooze. Surely that’s safer?
Essexboy:
I can’t see how they can tell you to have the minimum breaks,what if you felt tired and had an hour instead of a 45? So you could have a snooze. Surely that’s safer?
Our company say to add 5 minutes onto every break we have so 20,35 or 50.
dozy:
3. When you go back for your 2/3 run you will normally have a 2/3 hr wait for a reload,that could and should be either break or p.o.a,not just left on other work so you can have a hour or whatever you fancy at the next services.
I don’t think it can be break, WTD regs say this…
For the purposes of this Directive:
(a) “working time” shall mean:
- in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning to the end of work, during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities, that is to say:
- the time devoted to all road transport activities. These activities are, in particular, the following:
(i) driving;
(ii) loading and unloading;
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle;
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;
(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific transport operation under way, including monitoring of loading and unloading, administrative formalities with police, customs, immigration officers etc.,
- the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty, in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is to say either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question, or under the general conditions negotiated between the social partners and/or under the terms of the legislation of the Member States;
Question is, can you leave site and go home for example, or shopping? If so it’ll be POA. If you can’t it clearly can’t be POA and it clearly can’t be break as you are required to remain ready at your workstation ready to take up work. Thats already defined above as “working time” and should be recorded as such.
bald bloke:
Essexboy:
I can’t see how they can tell you to have the minimum breaks,what if you felt tired and had an hour instead of a 45? So you could have a snooze. Surely that’s safer?Our company say to add 5 minutes onto every break we have so 20,35 or 50.
That’s what we were always told to do by the driver trainer,but this memo says 45 mins,30 mins,I think it’s a case there trying to squeeze every minute out of you,or our depot management are.
Break simply means recouperating so not driving or working and that can be taken anywhere - in the driver seat or down the chippy
ROG:
Break simply means recouperating so not driving or working and that can be taken anywhere - in the driver seat or down the chippy
I’m not sure of your point, but you missed out the word “exclusivley”. You’ve also added in “so not working or driving”, thats not its definition or description. It may be a likeley outcome of being on break, but its not a prerequesite. But in any event i don’t think there’s anyone who doesn’t know you can take your break where you like.
We were forced to come off hours and on to salary but the boss refuses to tell us how many hours we are expected to work for the “salary”, most weeks we work over 50+ hours. When he is asked he just trots out a letter stating you are paid x amount for however many hours is necessary to get the job done.
I also thought that if you are paid salary you got the same amount if you were off sick as well (not so)
Now if we were held up whilst on hourly pay he would be on the phone to them or pulling us out as it would cost him money for us to sit there on our backsides, now he don’t care how long you are there as he just has to pay the same amount and still expects you to finish the rest of the work for the day.
Also when we get back to the yard we are “encouraged” to pull your card then spend another couple of hours loading your trailer for the next day
vwgpmk2:
Also when we get back to the yard we are “encouraged” to pull your card then spend another couple of hours loading your trailer for the next day
Clearly illegal and you should get that sorted ASAP.
vwgpmk2:
We were forced to come off hours and on to salary but the boss refuses to tell us how many hours we are expected to work for the “salary”, most weeks we work over 50+ hours. When he is asked he just trots out a letter stating you are paid x amount for however many hours is necessary to get the job done.I also thought that if you are paid salary you got the same amount if you were off sick as well (not so)
Now if we were held up whilst on hourly pay he would be on the phone to them or pulling us out as it would cost him money for us to sit there on our backsides, now he don’t care how long you are there as he just has to pay the same amount and still expects you to finish the rest of the work for the day.
Also when we get back to the yard we are “encouraged” to pull your card then spend another couple of hours loading your trailer for the next day
Its YOUR licence that will disappear and YOUR wages when out of work due to flagrantly breaking the rules…Dont be so stupid. WTD was invented to stop tired sods killing people and to stop some companies taking the [zb] out of its workers.
I bet his bonus looks good though !