TrumanShow:
Firstly, thank you to all who replied.
This just is not registering (and believe me i am trying). So on the VTG6 plate these are the gross weights? As said the vehicle weight is a 6x2 with a rear lift axel.
The combination weight of both unit and trailer sitting on a weight bridge empty is approx 18,000 with the vehicle weighting approx 7,500
FOR MY UNDERSTANDING.
Axel 1 - is the front wheels, cab and engine. This weight cannot exceed 9,000
Axel 2 / 3 - These are drive axels. With a Combined maximum weight of 18,000 spread over the 2 axels at 11,500 and 7,500 max.
The trailer can then be loaded to a maximum of 8,000 per axel. However overall weight needs to be taken into consideration.
Is this right, or am I confusing myself with what Axel 1 is and what it can carry.
As said, i appreciate everyones in put. I am here seeking YOUR knowledge to help me better understand.
You’ve stated the individual max gross weight capacity of each individual axle.
That has nothing to do with the max permitted GVW/GCW of 44t.Nor the max permitted Gross weight of the unit within that figure.Obviously when the figures you’ve provided total 28t.
They aren’t ‘drive axles’.It’s a ‘drive axle’ in the case of a 6 x 2.It obviously has the highest max permitted weight capacity of them all like a 4 x 2.
At max gross 44t even 25t on the unit at 44t gross would be a heavy trailer pin weight and given a normal fifth wheel position most of it will be imposed on the drive and rear tag.I’d be surprised if 9t of that weight was ever imposed on the steer axle.If it was it would probably be at the expense of drive axle weight and a weird fifth wheel position.
The combined 11.5 + 7.5 figures subtracted from 26t max permitted weight of the unit provide a more realistic idea of what the steer axle will be loaded to at 44t gross in the real world.As a general rule you want the drive axle to be loaded to as close to its max permitted weight as possible.
The rest can then obviously be sorted out by deduction from that within the 44t max permitted GCW.
Punchy Dan:
Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .
So does this mean
Axel 1: permitted weight of the cab, driver and everything cannot exceed 9 ton.
Axel 2: Drive axel cannot exceed 11500, or 10500 if running 44 ton.
Axel 3: Drive / Fifth wheel cannot exceed 7,500
Then each trailer axel cannot exceed 8,000 - or am i way way off here. Am reading this stuff, but i cannot get it to register.
Contrary to what some later posters have said, you are correct that if you operate at 44000kg, actually it’s 40001kg or more, the drive axle or axle 2 maximum does drop from 11500 to 10500kg.
11500kg drive axle load is EU regulations, however once you go over 40t you leave EU rules and come under national rules, in the case of the UK that is10500kg, however in Italy for instance going over 40t increases your drive axle to 13t. Trust us to be different.
acd1202:
Contrary to what some later posters have said, you are correct that if you operate at 44000kg, actually it’s 40001kg or more, the drive axle or axle 2 maximum does drop from 11500 to 10500kg.
^ This.
The figures provided by the OP are only max permitted ‘design’ weights for each axle.
Not what’s legal to load to regardless or they would still amount to 27t on the unit even with the 10.5t drive axle.
But always best to load the drive axle to as close to its max as possible obviously 10.5t in this case.
When I was a TM way back last century, I had a 7.5 tonner flat bed in the fleet. I needed to send a heavy microwave generator to the Isle of Man and worked out that it came in just under the capacity of the truck.
The CG (Centre of Gravity) was marked on the case and I MEasured the truck bed to work out exactly where it had to go to avoid overloading either axle. I told the loaders to pack the empty space between the case and the bulkhead with dunnage to stop it sliding forward and the driver would strap and sheet it. I wasn’t able to supervise the loading myself.
A few days later I got a summons for an overloaded front axle. The driver had seen how it was loaded and decided that it didn’t ‘look’ right, so he had it moved forward a couple of feet. I wrote and explained and got away with a warning, but that driver had to keep his head down for a month or two.
Santa:
When I was a TM way back last century, I had a 7.5 tonner flat bed in the fleet. I needed to send a heavy microwave generator to the Isle of Man and worked out that it came in just under the capacity of the truck.
The CG (Centre of Gravity) was marked on the case and I MEasured the truck bed to work out exactly where it had to go to avoid overloading either axle. I told the loaders to pack the empty space between the case and the bulkhead with dunnage to stop it sliding forward and the driver would strap and sheet it. I wasn’t able to supervise the loading myself.
A few days later I got a summons for an overloaded front axle. The driver had seen how it was loaded and decided that it didn’t ‘look’ right, so he had it moved forward a couple of feet. I wrote and explained and got away with a warning, but that driver had to keep his head down for a month or two.
The OP’s question seems to be more about the definition of real world permissable axle weight limits v max possible ‘design’ weights of each individual axle.
The steer might say it’s ok for 9t and the drive ok for 11.5 but probably, if not definitely, not in the real world.
For a start all 3 axles can’t possibly be loaded to more than 26t combined.
The drive can’t be loaded to more than 10.5t.
Carryfast has spoken.
Although it says on the plating certificate what weights are permitted in UK, and are not to be exceeded, (column 2) ,the Department of Transport knows nothing] compared to TNs resident all round expert.
Old John:
1[attachment=0]20210117_111335.jpg[/attachment
Carryfast has spoken.
Although it says on the plating certificate what weights are permitted in UK, and are not to be exceeded, (column 2) ,the Department of Transport knows nothing] compared to TNs resident all round expert.
I have reported this post.
The pictures are obvious photoshpped, to discredit the contribution of a member of this forum, who freely shares his vast knowledge on many subjects pertaining to transport. I fear the constant abuse that he receives, may cause him to stop contributing.
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
Not sure Dan, but given that both the max permitted, and design weight of the vehicle have not been exceeded, I don’t know what they could do . Bizarrely, you would be fine if you were pulling the trailer at the time.
I’m not sure about your Foden, but the Scania won’t let you put much more than ten tons on the drive before the tag drops automatically.
When fully loaded, if you toggle the weight transfer, it will put around 14 tons to the drive axle, but only if you stay below 25mph.
I always try to have my fifth wheel in a position where, when loaded, the imposed weight on the steer and tag axles is as near as possible the same. I find that they handle and steer much better like that, and are more comfortable as it takes a lot of the “nod” out. It’s quite difficult on a LWB tractor unit (3.1 wheelbase)to get the coupling far enough forward to achieve equal loading without the landing gear fouling the chassis of the unit, so I think that the OPs unit with the 9t capacity front axle has been specced with a large rear of cab Crane in mind.
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
No Dan, just like taking a unit only or empty artic over an 18 ton max bridge (like Bradford on Avon, and lately Bath). Its the plated weight that counts, and all axles are considered, not just the o es ‘on the ground’.
It is very simple and need not be over complicated or over thought:
Your total vehicle weight cannot exceed the 44t limit.
None of your axles can exceed their individually plated limits.
So, as long as any of your axles are at or below their plated weight and the total is under 44t away you go. If any axle is over, but the total is under 44t the load needs to be redistributed. If the axles are under, but the total exceeds 44t the load needs to be reduced.
P.S. To the driver who said some of the front axles are never over, you’ve never pulled a load of SKY magazines (back in the day) or used a double decker with actual weight on!! Oh, and to the Palletline decker that passed me on the A14 two weeks ago, who was fish-tailing after every overtake, you really need to check your weights before you kill yourself or somebody else.
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
Not sure Dan, but given that both the max permitted, and design weight of the vehicle have not been exceeded, I don’t know what they could do . Bizarrely, you would be fine if you were pulling the trailer at the time.
I’m not sure about your Foden, but the Scania won’t let you put much more than ten tons on the drive before the tag drops automatically.
When fully loaded, if you toggle the weight transfer, it will put around 14 tons to the drive axle, but only if you stay below 25mph.
I always try to have my fifth wheel in a position where, when loaded, the imposed weight on the steer and tag axles is as near as possible the same. I find that they handle and steer much better like that, and are more comfortable as it takes a lot of the “nod” out. It’s quite difficult on a LWB tractor unit (3.1 wheelbase)to get the coupling far enough forward to achieve equal loading without the landing gear fouling the chassis of the unit, so I think that the OPs unit with the 9t capacity front axle has been specced with a large rear of cab Crane in mind.
Hi John the foden looks to have a valve somewhere that limits the pressure to the bags beyond a certain point .under normal circumstances empty or part loaded if you lift the rear axle the whole lot goes down and comes back up ,beyond 29 tonne gross the lot gets lower and lower with more weight ,but it has no auto drop just the lot sits low .
Old John:
1[attachment=0]20210117_111335.jpg[/attachment
Carryfast has spoken.
Although it says on the plating certificate what weights are permitted in UK, and are not to be exceeded, (column 2) ,the Department of Transport knows nothing] compared to TNs resident all round expert.
I have reported this post.
The pictures are obvious photoshpped, to discredit the contribution of a member of this forum, who freely shares his vast knowledge on many subjects pertaining to transport. I fear the constant abuse that he receives, may cause him to stop contributing.
We can only hope!
On the Photoshop front, I also do extremely convincing large denomination bank notes.
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
YES
Although the axles are rated to carry that capacity there would be a gross overload not an axle overload
Old John:
Although it says on the plating certificate what weights are permitted in UK, and are not to be exceeded, (column 2) ,the Department of Transport knows nothing] compared to TNs resident all round expert.
Go for it.Load the unit to 26.5t with 11.5t of that on the drive axle.
Who needs more than 5.8t on each trailer axle.Sounds like a great plan to me.
That’s obviously clearly what it says.
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
YES
Although the axles are rated to carry that capacity there would be a gross overload not an axle overload
Would there? I’m not sure. It’s a 3 axle vehicle, and I think will be plated at 26 tons GVW. The fact that one axle is off the ground will not alter that fact, therefore although it may technically be wrong, im struggling to see that it would be illegal, and it’s hard to see what the authorities could do about it.
(I think)
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
carryfast will !!
No prosecutions because the law is still trying to work out what and where the offending figures actually are and went in that calculation.
A bit like the now you see it now you don’t drive axle weight limit or how to get 9t onto the steer axle.
cav551:
Has anyone heard/read of any prosecutions for exceeding the imposed load through the kingpin yet all the axle weights have been ok and the unit gross and the combination gross have not been exceeded either?
Also on a 26 tonne rigid 6 by 2 how about this example,the front axle 8 tonne and drive axle 11:5 tonne with rear axle lifted .
The weight being 19.5 tonne ,would an offence be committed being as the gross for a 2 axle rigid is 18 tonne
YES
Although the axles are rated to carry that capacity there would be a gross overload not an axle overload
Would there? I’m not sure. It’s a 3 axle vehicle, and I think will be plated at 26 tons GVW. The fact that one axle is off the ground will not alter that fact, therefore although it may technically be wrong, im struggling to see that it would be illegal, and it’s hard to see what the authorities could do about it.
(I think)
Going back to the original post he could run that combination with the tag up at 44T therefore on 5 axles, so is that legal ?
