Anorak, I made an error (not in Luxembourg)only belgium for Volvo, first on the south of brussels(Alsemberg) assembling plant, where they did also the specific point for Holland,their they had a longer wheelbase and other minor things.AEC was avialable with the Ergomatic cab,but less less comfortable, the one favour it had was the tilting cab. The last had only the ergo cab, Bollekens closes,and the ergo cabbed most had Leyland badges. AEC here was almost a belgian make, if it had the financial power as the Turkish BMC they could have bought out from leyland and tried to go it own way.But around '73 it had become weak against the Sweeds and DAF who had already shutted out AEC and Leyland in the coach and bus sector.AEC Antwerp was closed and the Marathon was a disaster here,it was with it’s 280HP a real puller and could withstand lots of 320’s but their is more as power,service points, back up ,comfort,reliability.It think the leyland group was a viction of it’s own success,it gave licences for engines,direct injection and so on and continued building their success and the licence takers continued to develop and so outdated BLMC.Once the biggest closed down here and gave it’s importer and distributorship to Scania who sold them better as they self.At around '80 it came back with the roadtrain,sold some little lorries but couldn’t break through with the big one’s and again with it’s TL12 engine later with the Rolls.Nearly no dealers and back up killed them of for ever. And was taken over by it’s one’s licence taker.
The first persevere in forword contole was Daf of coure it hadn’t bonneted lorries in the big class,other couldn’t preserve like the Germans who delivered it from the mid '50’s. so the Sweeds had to work had to keep up.The LB 76 wasn’t much sold here lots stayed loyal to bonneted scania’s,the first break through of the sweeds was the Volvo Tiptip.In the meantime Fiat became a big player was the cheapest, gave good service here and for trips to Italy it was the way to go.
By the side of other in those days only the Sweeds deliverd good heating and insulated cabs.
According to that site, which is not always the most reliable, production only started in 1960. Presumably the 1950s Belgian AECs had Mk3 cabs? When did they start assembling in Belgium?
Evening all, well hould I be happy■■? At 1915hrs, I concluded, (via a mobile telephone, as our landline has gone AWOL, and the uninterested Bridgend call centre of The Post Office, cannot investigate, via Openreach, untill 06 02 13…Have any of these corporate parasites any idea how important a land line is)!!! A deal with my very good Belgian Tractor Dealer, to swop a rather worn John Deere, plus a “little”, (too much really), cash, for a Bollekens cab Super Mandator, Timkin axle 4x2.
I saw her on my last visit to purchase a tracked Deere, and as you do , fell in love!! So she`s coming,( I am forbidden to go and collect, as I spent so much time away when collecting my LB76, with the Deere) from Bordeaux!!
tiptop 495 is quite right in what he says about AEC in Belgium. In fact the whole history of AEC in Europe, let alone South America, is quite spectacular, and well worthy of" writing up". Perhaps I should consolidate all the the bits that I have scattered through these threads into one place, for they all have documentary support.
Im a happy man tonight, and the Bollinger beckons, and I need to get my thinking cap on…I need another Deere, and I`ve an LB76 to part exchange!!! Bon Nuit mes Braves. Cheerio for now.
Interesting point Saviem. My two and half year old grandson has been a Deere fanatic for some time, my Massey and JCB not being good enough! however of late he can only be pacified with McCormicks. Does he know something that we don’t?
According to that site, which is not always the most reliable, production only started in 1960. Presumably the 1950s Belgian AECs had Mk3 cabs? When did they start assembling in Belgium?
hallo Anorak, everyone knows a part perfect and so you can make the whole history, but the problem is to connect the good parts togheter so it will be perfect story. But that BP AEC must from the world expo in '58. Yes we had some with british cabs as the MOGUL but the bonneted model before the Mogul was with a Belgian cab already.I will try to get the exact time it started.Old brochures show British cabs but a brochure is only a brochure.Look at the first F88 brochure an nobody can exactly say if it was a original picture or a touched up, you only can tell the truth by experience.
Saviem:
Evening all, well hould I be happy■■? At 1915hrs, I concluded, (via a mobile telephone, as our landline has gone AWOL, and the uninterested Bridgend call centre of The Post Office, cannot investigate, via Openreach, untill 06 02 13…Have any of these corporate parasites any idea how important a land line is)!!! A deal with my very good Belgian Tractor Dealer, to swop a rather worn John Deere, plus a “little”, (too much really), cash, for a Bollekens cab Super Mandator, Timkin axle 4x2.
I saw her on my last visit to purchase a tracked Deere, and as you do , fell in love!! So she`s coming,( I am forbidden to go and collect, as I spent so much time away when collecting my LB76, with the Deere) from Bordeaux!!
tiptop 495 is quite right in what he says about AEC in Belgium. In fact the whole history of AEC in Europe, let alone South America, is quite spectacular, and well worthy of" writing up". Perhaps I should consolidate all the the bits that I have scattered through these threads into one place, for they all have documentary support.
Im a happy man tonight, and the Bollinger beckons, and I need to get my thinking cap on…I need another Deere, and I`ve an LB76 to part exchange!!! Bon Nuit mes Braves. Cheerio for now.
Congratulations on your purchase Saviem ,so whats a Super Mandator,is it more powerful than a standard Mandator or was it just the name they were all called in Belguim.I personally think that AECs success anywhere in the world was firmly put to bed when Leyland took over as i reckon Leylands intention was to eliminate them as soon as was possible .It makes me wonder why no one came in to buy them when BL were on their knees and desperate for cash
Hello Saviem,
Perhaps you could do yourself and every other BT customer a favour and chain the CEO of BT to the John Deere and instruct the ferry company to push it overboard mid channel!
cav551:
Hello Saviem,
Perhaps you could do yourself and every other BT customer a favour and chain the CEO of BT to the John Deere and instruct the ferry company to push it overboard mid channel!
The whole telecommunications industry is a scam. All of the main ISPs and BT spend more money fobbing people off with sub-standard service, than improving the reliability of the service. Call centres are staffed by people who cannot speak English clearly, reading from an inflexible script (I wonder if our European contributors suffer the same thing?). They tell lies: you take a day off work, to receive an “engineer”, who does not turn up as promised. They make you go through laborious checks on your own equipment, ignoring all logical arguments, even when it is obvious that their equipment is at fault. Etc. Etc.
What has this got to do with old vehicles? I compare it to the jokes about British Leyland products of the 1970s. Those fall-to-bits motors were paragons of reliability compared to a modern-day internet connection. At least the engineers, dealers and mechanics attempted to solve the problems. These modern businesses all share a smug sense of detachment from their duties to do a good day’s work for a good day’s pay. It is as if the ghost of Donald Stokes has infected their boardrooms.
Apologies if this is in the wrong place.Just thought it deserved a look,and maybe some comment.I’m not involved in any way (wish I was!) -saw it on another forum
kr79:
To be fair though the British truck builders seemed to be offering the day cab as the standard offering well in to the 70s whereas the continental builders offered the sleeper as standard. I know when leyland introduced the roadtrain there was no sleeper at the launch and that was about 1980.
My old man used to call them gaffers cabs.
I.e the gafer isn’t dfriving them so he dosen’t need a sleeper or radio or heater etc.
Gaffers bought the wagons so firms didn’t offer stuff they didn’t want.
He did say the digs system brought drivers together as you went for a pint with drivers from all other firms.
Then if you were on the docks or had a problem you usually knew someone who would help.
Once sleepers came in drivers parked in laybyes etc and stayed on their own and didn’t mix as much.
How about that- the Dutch operator reckons his Leylands are faster, more fuel-efficient and more comfortable than Swedish and German makes!
That said, all operators say that their new vehicle is better than the old one, for fear of looking as if they have just invested loads of cash for no benefit.
Those look like locally-sourced cabs to me. Leylend experts will know better.
By the late 1960s Dutch operators in general had three level of quality , 1 Swedish and German 2 Dutch and other European and 3 British makes , In Danmark was still known Leyland was only beaten by Volvo, Scania could be good or bad .... bit of luck so to say , but Mercedes - Benz was allways sold in England , only stopped in the war then restarted , but not so special untill 1626 in late 1970s …German Gardner… no power at all but went on an on
Lilladan:
By the late 1960s Dutch operators in general had three level of quality , 1 Swedish and German 2 Dutch and other European and 3 British makes , In Danmark was still known Leyland was only beaten by Volvo, Scania could be good or bad .... bit of luck so to say , but Mercedes - Benz was allways sold in England , only stopped in the war then restarted , but not so special untill 1626 in late 1970s …German Gardner… no power at all but went on an on
I didn’t know Leyland was a respected make in Denmark. I always thought it was “Scania country”. I’m not surprised- in the 1950s (and '60s), Leyland was strong in Finland, France, the low countries and Spain. There are even some pictures of Leylands operating in Sweden, on the forum.
Albion and Leyland sold very well in Danmark as did Bedford ans to the lesser AEC ,Commer, Dodge and Ford , special Leyland models were made for DK , good was the price ,fuel economy and performance , Volvo was regarded as best out of the expensive makes then Mercedes Benz then Scania and DAF , it was all about value for money , all the technical advances were from Volvo wid Scania always a long way behind them , the very long runs were better with a Volvo , if a Scania dropped a valve in the motor or the gearbox or back axel broke up in Italy, the driver cannot get it home with a quick fix like the small problems on a Volvo
Lilladan:
Albion and Leyland sold very well in Danmark as did Bedford ans to the lesser AEC ,Commer, Dodge and Ford , special Leyland models were made for DK , good was the price ,fuel economy and performance , Volvo was regarded as best out of the expensive makes then Mercedes Benz then Scania and DAF , it was all about value for money , all the technical advances were from Volvo wid Scania always a long way behind them , the very long runs were better with a Volvo , if a Scania dropped a valve in the motor or the gearbox or back axel broke up in Italy, the driver cannot get it home with a quick fix like the small problems on a Volvo
hey Lilladan, I agree in ways you say,same here,MB sold everwhere the 1926 or 1924 nearly never broke but needed a big fuel tank. The small British as Beford were good value for money and the work they had to do, and so were the BMC’s.
The best and strongest big Englishman was AEC of course adopted for Belgium,Leyland only was strong with it’s 0680 150/165hp.
About the Sweeds lot’s depend about the maintenance and the driving style. Our experience was behind the engine the Volvo was stronger,but with greasing the propshaft over and over again we could manage to do about 400.000km later even 700.000km with the Scania’s. But for the gearbox and axles you needed a carefull driver.
The Scania engine did more kilometers but wasn’t without his own problems, electrolysed liners,overheating 275hp engines.
I speak here about my experience of '60,'70 and '80 lorries.
In the time I was in the company,before driving as driver for other with Daf’s we bought as follow after exprerience.
from the mid '50 on when the first new lorries came after the surplus WWII’s.
White ( stopped dollar become to expensive and weak sevice points aboad)
Faun (weak Deutz engines)
Krupp (a compleet disaster,all were converted with ■■■■■■■ engines.
AEC (problems with seller for Belgium).
Scania (L75 the best ever followed by the 76).
Daf DO leyland engined and a 2600 because of need of cabovers.
Volvo (because our trailer supplier and a good 195hp L495 product)
Volvo tiptop 495 repaced Daf’s for cabovers because the LB76 had no tilting cab after bad experience with fixed cabs).
Volvo F88 (a real wonderful truck as the 75,76 scannies,luckly came fast after the disasterous L4951).
Scania L,LB110 with gave no service as the 75/76 series.
Scania LB140 which was a compleet disater after the engine,first engines gave some problems as did the first F89’s.
Volvo F89 (took over for years very reliable powerful ,beter as the 140 good 16 speed box).
Scania LB141 ( wonderfull truck took over after bad experience of the first F12’s).
Volvo F12 Intercooler ( took over after 142 problem)
Scania (come back with 142 and 143 intercooler’s along the F12,and stayed till the and of the hauling story 1991.)
One Volvo F16 which wasn’t good on fuel, stayed as a strange bird.
After that I was driving for several years Daf’s,and feld in love with them after the disasterous leyland engined one’s we had.
They gave tremendous service with over a 1.000.000km without problems,I think the best trucks ever built (2800,95).
What I have to say is don’t stay loyal to a marque but try out!!!
Hi Eric , as you say Bedford has a special place all over Europe as the start of a haulage firms success , a cheap truck that cope wid very big load , and we did try other than Leyland and Volvo , but found Scania expensive but not very good (even engine`s) DS11 276 ,305 an 333 hk , an DAF 95 good only for 300,000 KM ( or about that ) , but BMC ? a good truck …really you say so ■■ and Mercedes expensive to buy and run on fuel and short Engine life , next year gearbox and then back axel , brakes ect
Lilladan:
Hi Eric , as you say Bedford has a special place all over Europe as the start of a haulage firms success , a cheap truck that cope wid very big load , and we did try other than Leyland and Volvo , but found Scania expensive but not very good (even engine`s) DS11 276 ,305 an 333 hk , an DAF 95 good only for 300,000 KM ( or about that ) , but BMC ? a good truck …really you say so ■■ and Mercedes expensive to buy and run on fuel and short Engine life , next year gearbox and then back axel , brakes ect
Hallo Lilladan, Are you in heavy work because you say Scania ,MB and Daf gave no good service. And especially if you say Daf does only about 300.000 km,our experience is so good with Daf and not only we see it on the selling market. What was the problems dann with them. Of course if you have had only one you can’t realy try a marque out.
A colleague of us had three F12’s 385 and had bought them together at a time they had a week moment burned pistones, driveshafts and probshafts failed. So they never bought Volvo’s again.
The same with MB never have had driveaxle problems,some put them even under a Scania together with a Fuller box.
But the first Actros had a so bad driveaxle never seen at MB,so many moved to MAN.
Same with Scania engine the 275 was delicate of overheating the 305 (111)gave us excellent service but the first 112 with the 305 was week,but the 112 intercooler 333hp was a very good one here.
What I realy don’t understand if a driveline is good they update it and you have theething problem.
Look at Volvo 495 195hp good 240 bad F88 good first F10’s updated F88 not good but why■■?
Daf the same the first 3300 had still the 2800 engine block which teared under the bigger torque.
Nowadays development is better but not Always.
But about Daf’s a I became a low distance driver. I got three Daf’s with about a 1.000.000 and still gave excelent service even one did over 2.000.000 km.
Here prices are a bit the same MB sells his star expensive,and Scania thinks you have to buy one why give it cheap,but that time has long gone.
And as you said in the lower class a Bedford was better as a Scania 80/81 and very much cheaper,till Daf took over as a good value for a good price.
I Always was told ask everything of the engine but never hurt it,and give it Always an excellent maintenance.
oil,water and filters are cheaper as repairs.
mandator:
Here a nice AEC Super Mandator MkIII with Van Hool cab and tank.
I shall be back later with the Guy Spitals / AEC Continental story on the lorry range in Belgium
Great- another Belgian poster. The Low Countries are the most interesting in Europe, if you like old lorries- all the manufacturers had a go there, so it seems. Welcome to the madhouse, Mr. mandator!
I am surprised that Van Hool and the other Belgian/Dutch coachbuilders did not have a crack at the GB market in the 1950s/'60s. Their work seemed to be a cut above that of the British shed-men, and if they already had the installation work done on GB chassis, it seems like they had an easy opportunity.
Before the second World War Guy Spitals was already importer of French Berliet. On January 1, 1949 the Etablissements Guy Spitals SA started the import of AEC and Maudslay. To reduce costs (import tax) vehicles were delivered as CKD and were assembled at their works in Deurne/Antwerp. All types lorries and buses were available during the years. Some models in the range were locally modified to meet local leglisation and often to increase performances. Examples were Super Mandator (Timken rear axle) and Monarch 6x2 chassis.
In 1960 Guy Spitals formed in cooperation with AEC Southall and Willème France, AEC Continental SA as importer for Belgium and Luxembourg with several service points and dealers around both countries.
Cabs for the lorries were locally built by companies as Bollekens, Jonckheere, Maes, Van Hool, Stoelen, etc. This Belgian input ended with the arrival of the Ergomatic cab.
smart Maudslay Majestic with Maes cab of LAMOT brewery.
This succesful Belgian business ended with the demise of AEC and later British Leyland in the early eighties.
