11 / 11 / 11

Quinny.

On that forum you linked us to, post No 7 said:

Do you know in Ireland this day will bypass most people and if you told someone to honour the dead and especially the Irish soldiers that died you would probably get into an argument with that person over Irish soldiers fighting in the British army. I have full respect for all the Irish and indeed all the soldiers that fought in this war and i will remember them tomorrow.

So why were there so many awards of the VC to Irish born people.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ir … recipients

My Grandfather, born and bred in Sligo, fought in the British Army in the WW1, went home, and in 1921 was advised to get the hell out of Ireland, before Collins and his boys came round and killed him and his family.

i was on a ryanair flight out of genoa this morning and they never mentioned it over the tannoy

I remembered them :frowning:

i stopped in the centre of wolverhampton.

i was following a funeral cortage made up of horse drawn hearse and 3 cars and we all stopped on the a460 for 2 minutes.

least we forget

jon

I was in a meeting this morning and at the required time I piped up and asked if we could observe the silence as i am an ex soldier so it is something i always do every year and was basically told to have my own silence so i did once I had left the room in disgust !!! but what amazed me the most is that I am only 29 years old but the next youngest to me was at least mid 40s and they say the younger generation have no respect.
The other thing i should mention is that I work for the council, so you would think they would observe the silence

I was on a loading bank, well sitiing in my cab, i shared my silence with the BBC, they seem to observe the silence on the radio over the last few years. It is allways a humbling experience

The freedom we cherish did not come free, lest we forget.
.

I found this article while browsing The Times Online and in these days of over paid prima donna footballers I though it made interesting, and moving, reading.

France preparing to pay respects to the fallen heroes from Hearts
By Owen Slot
Our correspondent on the Remembrance Day tributes in honour of McCrae’s Battalion and the brave players who gave their lives on the Somme

BERNARD SÉNÉCHAL, the Mayor of Contalmaison, expects wreaths to be laid in his tiny village in northern France tomorrow. He knows not who will lay them, nor from where the visitors will journey; he knows simply that it is Remembrance Day and that they will come. And he expects them to leave not only poppies but football scarves, too.

Sénéchal is a farmer, grey, wizened and, like his fellow hundred or so villagers, astonished at what has taken place since the Contalmaison cairn was erected next to the church this time last year. “People now stop here,” he said, eyebrows lifting in delight. “They never stopped here before. Sometimes I go past the cairn and there have been scarves or souvenirs from football clubs left there. This has given our village new life.”

His is a strange, uplifting tale steeped in the tragedy of the thousands who perished on the killing fields of the Somme, which has Contalmaison at its centre, and the number of Heart of Midlothian players who were among their number.

Hearts fans have long known about a special connection with the Great War. Year after year, the club programme in early November had reproduced the story of the players who died, only with each passing year reality faded and the myth grew. Indeed, the real story nearly died altogether.

When war broke out in 1914, professional footballers continued to be professional footballers, despite a groundswell of moral outrage over the feeling that they should be fighting for King and country. On November 25, however, 11 Hearts players enlisted for a new Edinburgh battalion. Two more followed the next day. After word had got out that they had signed up, it took only six more days for an entire battalion to be formed. The 16th Royal Scots would be known variously as “The Sportsmen’s Battalion”, “The Football Battalion” or, more widely, “McCrae’s Battalion” after Sir George McCrae, the inspirational Scot who assembled them and led them to war.

Three years ago Jim Paris, a retired policeman, set out for the Western Front with a group of fellow Hearts fans to find where the footballers had fallen. On discovering, to their astonishment, no memorial or record, they resolved to take action. Their first and best move was to contact Jack Alexander, an historian who, it turned out, was much farther ahead on the same project.

Alexander is a faded Hearts fan, but when he did have a season ticket in the 1970s he sat next to a survivor of McCrae’s and forged a relationship that merely sharpened his appetite for the story of the famous battalion. Alexander would tell Paris and his friends that McCrae’s became far more than a battalion of Hearts players and fans, that Hibernian players and fans followed the lead, joined by seven players from Raith Rovers and six from Falkirk.

The Evening News would record later that season, when Celtic pipped Hearts for the championship, that “the two leading Glasgow clubs have sent not a single prominent player to the Army. There is only one football champion in Scotland and its colours are maroon and khaki.”

But McCrae’s Battalion would attain an identity for its inclusion of athletes from all sports. “This was something elite,” Alexander said. “The feeling in Scotland at the time, very naively, was: if McCrae’s are going out, the Germans haven’t got long to live. That is part of the tragedy because the people at home and the battalion itself didn’t understand the sheer killing power of the war. They saw a group of athletes, brave men, well led, that the Germans wouldn’t be able to stand up against. But it wasn’t anything to do with bravery or athleticism or leadership, it was men versus machineguns.”

Alexander’s research took him to 25 McCrae’s Battalion survivors, more than 1,000 families of the dead and culminated two years ago in the publishing of a remarkable book, McCrae’s Battalion. Among its many treasures is the exchange of letters between the players and John McCartney, their manager at Tynecastle, who would send them comfort parcels. On February 10, 1916, for instance, Pat Crossan, the exceptionally fast and notoriously handsome right back, wrote: “I think that instead of fighting we should take the Fritzes on at football. I am certain we would do it on them.”

The fate of the bulk of McCartney’s team, however, is wrapped up in one paragraph describing July 1, 1916, the first, terrible day of the Allied advance, when McCrae’s Battalion moved in on the tiny fortification of Contalmaison: “By now the German field guns had joined in. Teddy McGuire (inside forward) was struck in the arm by flying shrapnel. As he fell, a machinegun round grazed his head. Ernie Ellis (midfield) and Jimmy Hawthorn (midfield, retired) went down in front of the wire. Jimmy Hazeldean (youth team) took a bullet in the thigh. Annan Ness (full back) saw Duncan Currie (left back) hit in the right shoulder. He also noticed Harry Wattie (forward) fall. Crossan (right back) was racing forward . . . when a shell exploded in front of them. There was nothing left but a crater and some khaki.”

Alexander’s emotional attachment to these men would not stop at publication. In his research, he had discovered plans from 1919 for a memorial to be built to McCrae’s Battalion in Contalmaison that were unfulfilled because of a lack of funds and compassion from the city of Edinburgh. Together with Paris’s group, the mission gathered pace and in the summer of last year a trio of Edinburgh stonemasons were dispatched to Contalmaison with a lorry of Elgin sandstone.

The cairn now stands, stark and strangely beautiful. It has four plaques, one dedicated solely to the strong Hearts connection. And it has given the story a further chapter.

Parties from Scotland make the pilgrimage to Contalmaison every year and the small village is overjoyed by the connection. Plans are being made for an annual football match, a French team from the Somme versus an Edinburgh team wearing the Hearts kit of 1914 with the players’ names on their backs.

And the story is spreading. On the visitors’ buses that tour the Somme, football fans from around Europe have been known to alight at Contalmaison. Sénéchal does not know how many because he spends his days in the fields, but he occasionally sees their scarves at the foot of the cairn.

FC Basle, for example. Last year, Basle played Hearts in the Uefa Cup and the story was exchanged. When Basle later played Lille, 36 of their fans travelled especially to Contalmaison. One of them, Matthias Steiner, had read McCrae’s Battalion and this is his eloquent explanation: “I told my boys what terrible contribution these boys had to pay for the honour of their country and we laid some flowers and a Basle silk scarf to honour the boys.

“Football, as far as it is connected with fairness and respect toward the guest team, is a perfect tool for better understanding among nations. I don’t know whether other continental football fans visit the cairn. But whoever does must recognise how important it is.”

FOOTBALL’S ONLY VICTORIA CROSS

DONALD BELL was the first English professional footballer to enlist in 1914 and the only player to be awarded the Victoria Cross.

Bell played for Bradford Park Avenue and gained the VC for his bravery in attacking and destroying a German gunpost on July 5, 1916. Five days later he was killed during a similar act of bravery, defending the village of Contalmaison that McCrae’s Battalion had attempted to capture ten days previously. The ground where he died is known as Bell’s Redoubt.

I was parked up on the hardshoulder of the M5 at J21 on the way home. Not many joined me :frowning:

yes ,read the same article in the independant today.one does wonder what the rooneys,beckhams&ferdinads would do in the same position.

i stood silently by my cab at a factory in cramlington yesterday to remember those brave heroes. last year me and my wife toured around ypres and the somme area and visited some of the war cemeteries. been sitting here for ages trying to find words to describe what it was like but i really, really can’t.

i parked in a layby on the A14, along with 3 cars all of us parked for the same reason, because as soon as the silence was over we were all back in our vehicles and on our way.
there are a couple of references to the irish not observing the armistice.
why should they, they were neutral and took no part in the war.
in fact the irish who fought for the british (and thank god they did) actually risked imprisonment on returning home for fighting for a foreign power

Dapper Scavenger:
I observed my two minutes silence, but as I was taking a break in a backwater industrial estate, I don’t think anyone noticed!

This year, you were able to buy a poppy by text!

it doesnt matter if anyone noticed
as long as you did

biggusdickusgb:
there are a couple of references to the irish not observing the armistice.
why should they, they were neutral and took no part in the war.
in fact the irish who fought for the british (and thank god they did) actually risked imprisonment on returning home for fighting for a foreign power

Yes in WW2 there where quite a few southern Irish who fought alongside the alied forces, but remember that in WW1 Ireland was as a whole still part off the British Empire. Plus to some of those that may have certain veiws on ethnic minorities in this country, there were many Indian Punjabi Bengaly and Pakistani soldiers who fought with distinction for the “Empire” or Allied forces if you prefer. :wink:

Whatever part of the British Empire they came from,they died so we could be free.

It’s a debt we could NEVER repay.

Ken.

biggusdickusgb:
i parked in a layby on the A14, along with 3 cars all of us parked for the same reason, because as soon as the silence was over we were all back in our vehicles and on our way.
there are a couple of references to the irish not observing the armistice.
why should they, they were neutral and took no part in the war.
in fact the irish who fought for the british (and thank god they did) actually risked imprisonment on returning home for fighting for a foreign power

re the southern irish not observing the armistice why should they.has much as they hate us ,british citizens died not only for our freedom but theirs as well.to make a political point it gave them the freedom to murder and bomb uk citizens for the past 40years.

Quinny:
Whatever part of the British Empire they came from,they died so we could be free.

It’s a debt we could NEVER repay.

Ken.

Although we could remember this, when we’re tarring all those from the sub continent with the muslim terro brush, as within all societies there is good and bad, i’m thankful that good men stood and fought to keep us free, no matter what theyre back ground :wink:

i take it you don’t like the irish then warrior

Warrior:
[re the southern irish not observing the armistice why should they.has much as they hate us ,british citizens died not only for our freedom but theirs as well.to make a political point it gave them the freedom to murder and bomb uk citizens for the past 40years.

Only a very small percentage of Irish, north or south, hate Brits and an even smaller number hated enough to murder, and of those who did, many murdered Irish people. So this kind of attitude is just what enables today’s psychopathic murderers to get a small measure of support.
I agree though, apart from individual families in the Republic who lost loved ones, why should they mark a war between foreign powers that they had the good sense to keep out of?
Perhaps it’s time for us to have minutes silences for victims of the Russo-Japanese war, the American Civil war, or the Iraq-Iran war. :unamused:

Salut, David.

biggusdickusgb:
i take it you don’t like the irish then warrior

i am from ulster stock,that should answer your question.