Newbie learning in 8 speed Manual Four-over-Four

First off, if your wondering what the hell is a “Four over Four” take a look at dieseldave’s explanation here:

And while that article is great as an explanation of them, it doesn’t address the question/situation any newbie will have when they are choosing what to learn to drive in. Should they choose an Automatic, or should the choose a Manual, and not be in the mire when the boss throws them the keys to a Manual.

I actually didn’t have much of a preference, as I was more interested in getting my training booked in with my trainer, than worrying about whether it was a Manual or an Auto. I seem to recall being told at the time of the booking that it would be an Auto, but when I arrived for my first lesson this morning, I found out it was a Manual! :open_mouth: Ohh, [zb]…

But in all seriousness, I still wasn’t that bothered or worried. I can drive a Manual car, so this can’t be much harder I thought to myself. I’d read Dave’s post about the different types of Manual’s, so knew what I would be facing. IN PRACTICE, BUT NOT IN REALITY!!! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

My trainer (David) kindly explained how the Iveco four-over-four worked, and I watched him intently as he took us to a quite place for me to be let loose. The first thing I spotted, or rather Dave stated :wink: (I still spotted it though! :laughing:) was that he don’t use 1st gear to pull away, Dave was using 3rd! :open_mouth: And when he chose to change up gears, he missed out 4th and want straight to 5th using the range splitter switch. OK I thought, so we have a few spare gears in this box, I hope they didn’t pay extra for them! :smiley:

The next thing I noticed (Or again Dave stated! :unamused:) was that he was taking corners slowly still in 5th gear, and not needing to switch to the low speed range of gears 1-4. That didn’t really surprise me either, as diesels are generally low reving with a lot of torque from the bottom end, and nothing but ■■■■ and wind at the top of the rev range. I also noticed (without David help thanks! :sunglasses:) that the rev band is a lot lower in the RPM range than my diesel car, and also a lot narrower, possible half the range! All of this made me conclude that it was perfectly normal and sensible to jump gears, as I don’t think you could get through them fast enough as you try to accelerate. Especially when changing gears in a truck, feels a bit more “agricultural” and porridge stirring than in your car.

So now I knew the score, had it all worked out in my mind, and it was my turn to show David my skills (Or lack of them…). So I jump in the hot seat, and off we go in low range, 3rd gear! Now before we go any further, the 3rd gear and 7th gear are in the same place, to the right and up. So we are away, and I have the gear stick close to my knee, i’m gaining speed and now I want 5th gear. I knew it was a slot over to the left of the gear I was currently in, but for some reason I couldn’t seem to tell my arm and hand that! :smiley: I felt so unnatural to be selecting a higher gear and moving the gear shift to the left, and away from me. Completely alien! At this point, I’m hoping the old hands are remembering a similar feeling from when they learnt. But maybe not, and I’m just special needs. :smiley:

So by now I’m thinking “this isn’t as easy as my brain told me it would be! :open_mouth:” and I was concerned that my issues and preoccupation with this difficulty was affecting my abilities and concentration with other matters like mirrors, breaking, general observation, signs, road markings, road position, other traffic, etc… Basically you name it, I couldn’t concentrate on it, all I couldn’t think of was this ■■■■ unnatural feeling gearbox! :confused:

As we carried on, David complimented me on my clutch control, but to be fair, he wasn’t going to compliment me on selecting the right gear was he! :wink: To make matters worse for myself, I have a habit (as I was taught this way in a car) to go down through the gears in the box and use these as engine breaking. But that really wasn’t helping me, as my brain was pretty much pre-programmed to go UP through every gear as well. So when I was in 3rd and pulling away, I often naturally went to 4th, and then went up to 5th. Thus giving my brain, arm and hand, another different unnatural feeling pattern to contend with. Both going up a gear, and moving to the left, but from a different starting position. So I now had 2 patterns to learn where I had to move left and change the range at the same time! You’re probably thinking “well that isn’t a good idea, as your making it harder for yourself” and you would be right! :laughing:

David agreed (told me :wink:) that it would be better if I forgot about 4th, and just worried about 3rd to 5th, and I agreed. But quite a few times in the drive my brain seemed to forget this, and i’d find myself in 4th wondering what I was doing there. :open_mouth: David was great about it, and at times pretended not to notice that I was trying to get my money’s worth out of 4th, and when he did comment, it came with a healthy but light dusting of sarcasm! :smiley:

So after a 4 hour lesson in a manual, I’m shattered, my brain is fried and I’ve got a light/mild headache! :neutral_face: I was getting better towards the end of the lesson, as my brain was eventually starting to learn, what to me was a completely unnatural pattern. I wouldn’t say I’ve cracked it yet, and know I’m going to have to improve to get up to test passing standards. But I’m also not disappointed that I hadn’t cracked it by the end of the lesson, as I have to accept/remember that this was my 1st lesson, I was getting tired, and suffering information overload. So even someone as perfect as me, can’t get everything right on their first time in a 12 ton truck! :wink: Tomorrow will be the proof of the pudding (love pudding!), as I will be fresh again, and hopefully not quite so overwhelmed by everything being so new.

That’s about it really regarding my newbie experience of an 8 speed four-over-four gearbox, and maybe it will help you choose whether you go Manual or Auto for your training. You may not even get a choice, as I believe just about all trainers are now going Auto, as that is what the industry is moving towards, probably mainly because of fuel economy… It’s probably easier to learn in an Auto (Not that I would know! :smiley:) You have less to think about, as the gears take care of themselves, which leaves you free to consider everything else you need to get right. But now I’m learning to drive in a Manual, I’m firmly in the club of you’re not a man unless you’ve driven a manual! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Hope that post helps others, and it’s kept me out the pub for an hour or so…

Time now to get some dinner, have a shower, and then get some sleep. Next lessen 7:30am tomorrow! :open_mouth:

It depends how heavy the truck is.

I had a pleasure to drive daf 250 skip lorry split box ( no idea why) normaly skip lorrys have straight 6 .

If empty i found 2, 4 , 6, 7 is easier than 3,5,7 feels more natural to my brain. When its loaded like 6t skip then 2,4,5,6 or 1,3,5,6. Depends if up hill to pull away etc.

All and all 2,4,6,7 is my favorite. Gear 7 is like gear 5 on car. my brain likes this option on straight road 30 - 40 mph speed range.

Gear 6 is below 30mpg and its like gear 4 on the car. in busy places.

But thats me,

Agreed that the gears you use depends on the load, just as it would depend on the truck as well. But for a Class C test to be valid, the vehicle has to be loaded, and when the Iveco was loaded with 5 tons (5 IBC’s) the correct gears are as I describe above. That’s what my instructor tells me, that’s what i try to do! :smiley:

I.m surprised loaded truck pulling away in 3 gear. What engine ?

Dan ze Man:
I.m surprised loaded truck pulling away in 3 gear. What engine ?

:open_mouth:

Tell ya tomorrow! :smiley:

I do recall something about it being overpowered, but wasn’t interest at the time to ask. I was more interested in learning to pass the test, than talking engines, BHP and Torque.

Fair Enough. Well good luck, break a leg, or something.

Relax. Is the key.

Glad you enjoyed it ! :laughing: .

See you in the morning.

Our Scania units are 3 over 3 with a Hi/Lo splitter. So 12 gears. Its noticeable in the yard who’s not driven Scania’s before lol.

What makes it more confusing is the fact that one of our 18 tonner’s is a manual Scania and that’s 4 over 4.

I remember the first time I came across a knock box :open_mouth:

Evenin mate. I drove a slapover Iveco euroturd 18 tonner once.

And once is enough.

eagerbeaver:
Evenin mate. I drove a slapover Iveco euroturd 18 tonner once.

And once is enough.

Mine was in a Hino tipper… That was a experience mate!!

yt03:
I remember the first time I came across a knock box :open_mouth:

I think I’ve met her! :smiley:

eagerbeaver:
Our Scania units are 3 over 3 with a Hi/Lo splitter. So 12 gears. Its noticeable in the yard who’s not driven Scania’s before lol.

What makes it more confusing is the fact that one of our 18 tonner’s is a manual Scania and that’s 4 over 4.

Sod that for the minute, I’m crying & screaming for my mummy with 8 gears!

Has anyone seen my dummy? :open_mouth:

Wait till you get a twin splitter with a range change :grimacing:

dkdavid1102:
Glad you enjoyed it ! :laughing: .

See you in the morning.

Thanks David, I was nice and didn’t say a bad word against you! :smiley:

PLEASE BE NICE TO ME TOMORROW!!! :open_mouth:

nick2008:
Wait till you get a twin splitter with a range change :grimacing:

:open_mouth: I’m not sure I even want to know at the moment… :smiley:

Evil8Beezle:

dkdavid1102:
Glad you enjoyed it ! :laughing: .

See you in the morning.

Thanks David, I was nice and didn’t say a bad word against you! :smiley:

PLEASE BE NICE TO ME TOMORROW!!! :open_mouth:

Was i not today ? :wink:

dkdavid1102:

Evil8Beezle:

dkdavid1102:
Glad you enjoyed it ! :laughing: .

See you in the morning.

Thanks David, I was nice and didn’t say a bad word against you! :smiley:

PLEASE BE NICE TO ME TOMORROW!!! :open_mouth:

Was i not today ? :wink:

Of course you were, thanks for your patience David.

I’ll be better tomorrow (I hope and pray…)

I.m surprised loaded truck pulling away in 3 gear. What engine ?

It’s 250. If you use 2nd, it revs out in no time. 3rd is perfect.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

First time I ever drove a 4 over 4 was a 4am run to Asda in Erith in London. That was an experience!