Chiz:
I was a passenger whilst a friend of mine was driving recently, I was constantly pointing things out to him and checking his blind spots for him. I must have been a right pain in the backside but I reckon we wouldn’t have made it to our destination if I hadn’t did what I did.
His excuse was that he doesn’t drive on motorways that often, yet he was lacking basic skills.
He’s trained to DSA test standard, which speaks volumes if you ask me.
I have a relative who is a former ADI, then Police instructor and then LGV C&E driver. He agrees with me that the DSA standard is very basic whatever you do it in. My personal experience is that the average ADI is only trained to the basic driving test standard (as verified by the many who join our group expecting to walk through their advanced test and have a nasty shock) and are not as knowledgable as they like to believe.
Advanced driving is based on attitude as much as actual performance. The majority of LGV drivers have the observation and planning skills equal to most advanced tests, but are often let down by their “I know it all because I am a LGV driver” attitude. This does not mean that they are not good drivers, but that they need to reconsider their attitude to maintain the high standards we should all be able to demand from professional drivers.
I’ve never had that problem with LGV drivers who come to do their advanced.
I’ve found their general ‘attitude’ to be very akin to the ethos that AD advocates.
Maybe I’ve been lucky but there will always be an element in any group that THINK they know better and do not approach with an open mind - maybe you got a few of that element gardun.
AD tends to go more deeply into WHY a driver does what they do.
A car driver cuts in front of a truck - the trucker ses the signs that this may happen and reacts before it does - great anticipation by the trucker - but an AD trucker will try and think WHY did the driver do it and maybe try and go deeper than that to try and get inside the head of the car driver.
To those that do not do AD this might sound silly but this is what the police class 1 drivers do all the time as it helps with understanding where and WHY problems occur - a sort of greater understanding into driving attitudes and behaviour which, in turn, makes for a safer than safe driver.
A liitle saying that it used quite often is -
To the average driver ‘safe’ is not having a driving incident. To an advanced driver ‘safe’ is not being vunerable to a driving incident.
IMO - most truckers tend to err towards the latter part of that saying.
I’ve never had that problem with LGV drivers who come to do their advanced.
I’ve found their general ‘attitude’ to be very akin to the ethos that AD advocates.
Me too, except a general attitude that they (LGV) know it all. Dissapointingly too common, althoug those wanting to do AD appear to have a more open attitude.
Probably asking for trouble, but I’m open to observed drives or any discussion.
I’ve never had that problem with LGV drivers who come to do their advanced.
I’ve found their general ‘attitude’ to be very akin to the ethos that AD advocates.
Me too, except a general attitude that they (LGV) know it all. Dissapointingly too common, althoug those wanting to do AD appear to have a more open attitude.
.
We are lucky as those wanting to improve have already made the decision to open their minds and have an open attitude towards a different type of driving.
I bet it would be different if trying to teach a driver who has been told to do it
Unfortunately, my brain (not eyes) is unable to quickly recognise 3D hazards on a 2D screen so therefore I cannot do the HPT which is one of the first steps in the process to become an ADI.
It causes a smile and sometimes disbelief when I tell people that I teach ADIs advanced driving
I must remind everyone at this point that the ADI part 2, the test of an ADIs own driving, is totally different from, and at a different level to, that of advanced driving, The system & techniques used are different as well.
As many have commented on here, they have seen some bad driving from ADI car instructors when alone in their cars.
An ADIs own driving skill (ADI test part 2) is a different issue from their instructional one (ADI test part 3).
[/quote]
You must be truely the God of all Driving Instructors Rog,
Whilst we mere hard working ADI’s struggle to earn £30,000 a year working every hour god sends to to pay our childrens public school fees and keep our wifes in the comfort and holidays they require, Gods to the driver training industry must earn £40 to £50,000 a year in consultancy fee for major companies, owe to be as good as you. I can only dream about it.
Happy New Year to all and good luck Driveroneuk on your check test. PM me driveroneuk if you want.
miketdt:
You must be truely the God of all Driving Instructors Rog,
Not a true statement as I cannot teach basic car learners and do not want to BUT I have great respect for those that do (ADIs) - I am not better or worse than they are - just in a different aspect of driver training - the post test training - a progression from the basic DSA standard which goes more into the ‘thinking’ aspects of driving as well as using a different driving system for negotiating all hazards.
The using of the vehicle controls is enhanced from the DSA basic standard as well as a different way of considering & using the rules of the road.
As I stated - the two, basic ADI DSA training/testing and roadcraft advanced training/testing are two very different concepts within driving.
Is a motorcycle trainer any better or worse than a car or LGV trainer How can you compare them as they are all different - the only common theme is that they all use the public highways.
Chiz:
I was a passenger whilst a friend of mine was driving recently, I was constantly pointing things out to him and checking his blind spots for him. I must have been a right pain in the backside but I reckon we wouldn’t have made it to our destination if I hadn’t did what I did.
His excuse was that he doesn’t drive on motorways that often, yet he was lacking basic skills.
He’s trained to DSA test standard, which speaks volumes if you ask me.
I have a relative who is a former ADI, then Police instructor and then LGV C&E driver. He agrees with me that the DSA standard is very basic whatever you do it in. My personal experience is that the average ADI is only trained to the basic driving test standard (as verified by the many who join our group expecting to walk through their advanced test and have a nasty shock) and are not as knowledgable as they like to believe.
Advanced driving is based on attitude as much as actual performance. The majority of LGV drivers have the observation and planning skills equal to most advanced tests, but are often let down by their “I know it all because I am a LGV driver” attitude. This does not mean that they are not good drivers, but that they need to reconsider their attitude to maintain the high standards we should all be able to demand from professional drivers.
If the highlighted part in RED IS TRUE why do SO many fail the LGV Test 1st time ? IF IT IS THAT BASIC ■■?
gardun:
I have a relative who is a former ADI, then Police instructor and then LGV C&E driver. He agrees with me that the DSA standard is very basic whatever you do it in. My personal experience is that the average ADI is only trained to the basic driving test standard (as verified by the many who join our group expecting to walk through their advanced test and have a nasty shock) and are not as knowledgable as they like to believe.
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
If the highlighted part in RED IS TRUE why do SO many fail the LGV Test 1st time ? IF IT IS THAT BASIC ■■?
Lets explore that question -
The DSA test to a very basic level - rules, controls and getting from A to B in relative safety.
Most trainees have no post car test driver training so many arrive for an upgrade course lacking in many basic driver skills.
An instructor does not have time on a basic one week course to teach a trainee to drive at a higher level.
The instructor is telling a trainee what to do and not how to think.
That one week course is barely enough time to teach the rules, controls and how to handle the vehicle in a basic safe manner in order to get from A to B.
Perhaps the solution is for drivers to take post car test driver training to a higher level before they start training for upgrades.
That post test training is done over a longer period and at a pace tailored to the individual which allows the driver to assimilate the enhanced driving skills into their normal driving so it becomes the norm.
Imagine having all the LGV trainees with very high driving skills along with excellent hazard perception & management techniques before they start their upgrade course.
The instructor could then concentrate on the upgrade training without having to worry about the general driving skills of the trainee.
Apart from the nerves issue, I would imagine that most trainees would then sail through the present DSA test
When i was thinking of taking my LGV class one I looked at the way you do with schools by the hour some of them said that there would do by the hour and some even quoted £65 per hour there said it would have to be a minimum of 4 hours and the average time spent driving is 20 hours.luckily for me my employer paid in the end.
My instructor said that he does not teach you to drive he teaches you to pass the test, he also said that you will never learn what you do as a truck driver in your training that come as you gain on road experience.
I would agree with that as i took my test in a W&D an then drove a artic, one month later and it was frighting for the first few nights but later it came to me.
when I took my C test had an examiner I asked him when should you take your C+E he said up to you but some examiners don’t like it there think you should have at least 6 months on road driving before you upgrade and would you believe it I had same examiner for my C+E test failed first passed second.
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
It’s all about Money… people complain about how much it costs to learn to drive a truck and take the cheaper option or the shorter course.
Agree with you totally but the ones that then take the short cheap courses are usually the first ones to complain when they fail and more often than not, are the ones to blame the instructor for not teaching them HOW to drive
Driveroneuk:
I too have no further wish to teach novice car drivers. I think i’d make a very good LGV instructor now i have considerable commercial experience.
Same teaching techniques and you get to worry everybody else on the road instead of them worrying you
Seroiusly, you focus much more on the damage that the vehicle you have virtually no control over (no dual controls) can cause to others.
You will also find out that the basic standard you taught learner car drivers to has disapeared into the ethos and wonder why their driving has deteriorated and you have to start with the basics - again
i have enjoyed the discusion lads but can i bring you down to earth , these vehicles we drive are not space craft or fighter aircraft, the roads are better, the vehicles safer and easier to drive. training yes but it is all going over the top
When i was thinking of taking my LGV class one I looked at the way you do with schools by the hour some of them said that there would do by the hour and some even quoted £65 per hour there said it would have to be a minimum of 4 hours and the average time spent driving is 20 hours.luckily for me my employer paid in the end.
My instructor said that he does not teach you to drive he teaches you to pass the test, he also said that you will never learn what you do as a truck driver in your training that come as you gain on road experience.
I would agree with that as i took my test in a W&D an then drove a artic, one month later and it was frighting for the first few nights but later it came to me.
when I took my C test had an examiner I asked him when should you take your C+E he said up to you but some examiners don’t like it there think you should have at least 6 months on road driving before you upgrade and would you believe it I had same examiner for my C+E test failed first passed second.
Del
Well i guess those who just teach people to pass test can sleep at night…
I try to get my learners far above the test standard.
Just getting people to test standard is not enough in my opinion.
If You train to a higher standard the learner is far more prepared for the test.
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
Well i guess those who just teach people to pass test can sleep at night…
I try to get my learners far above the test standard.
Just getting people to test standard is not enough in my opinion.
If You train to a higher standard the learner is far more prepared for the test.
That is not realistic in one week of about 16 to 20 hours training.
For an instructor to change a drivers permanent thinking process in one week would be a miracle - to set the driver on the right path towards that would be a more realistic view.
- but an AD trucker will try and think WHY did the driver do it and maybe try and go deeper than that to try and get inside the head of the car driver.
How can you compare them as they are all different 
