ADI DSA/Advanced accreditation & LGV/car training debate

From HERE as it was off-topic.

Driveroneuk:
Rog with his instructors hat used to annoy me when he first joined and started posting as I have spent time, money & effort to qualify as an ADI whilst he isn’t one. (Infact i have a check test on Jan 19… **any tips you other ADI’s?**However, over time I’ve come to realise his posts are well intended, often light hearted, and quite knowledgeable. Many a true word about not judging a book just from the preface. Merry XMas Rog.

ADI DISCUSSION SITE

ADUK - lots of ADI members

Worth a look

Seasons greeting to you Driveroneuk

Unfortunately, my brain (not eyes) is unable to quickly recognise 3D hazards on a 2D screen so therefore I cannot do the HPT which is one of the first steps in the process to become an ADI.

I have a wad of letters & E-mails to the DfT/DSA via my MP on this issue.
I asked that, as I teach a higher hazard awareness as a Senior advanced driving observer in the IAM and have done the Special Assessment test which includes a 90+ minute running commentary on all hazards whilst driving, I be allowed to be given accreditation for hazard awareness but the DSA were intransigent and refused.

From my observations, I can see the reasons for having instructor training & testing for teaching learners who are going for their first road licence but for upgrading and further driver training, the ADI set up does not seem to be fit for purpose.

It causes a smile and sometimes disbelief when I tell people that I teach ADIs advanced driving
I must remind everyone at this point that the ADI part 2, the test of an ADIs own driving, is totally different from, and at a different level to, that of advanced driving, The system & techniques used are different as well.
As many have commented on here, they have seen some bad driving from ADI car instructors when alone in their cars.
An ADIs own driving skill (ADI test part 2) is a different issue from their instructional one (ADI test part 3).

We had a chat about this in the chat room the other day and the opinion of 99% of those in the chat room felt that the IAM was just a money making scheme with no real benifits.

You pay … but what do you get you do not get a licence ( that is issued by the DSA )

LGV training gives you forward planning and awareness… which is all that is taught by the IAM

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
We had a chat about this in the chat room the other day and the opinion of 99% of those in the chat room felt that the IAM was just a money making scheme with no real benifits.

You pay … but what do you get you do not get a licence ( that is issued by the DSA )

LGV training gives you forward planning and awareness… which is all that is taught by the IAM

Have you done your advanced driving & test
If, yes, then your comments are substanciated from your experience of both.
If no, then how do you come to that conclusion

ROG:

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
We had a chat about this in the chat room the other day and the opinion of 99% of those in the chat room felt that the IAM was just a money making scheme with no real benifits.

You pay … but what do you get you do not get a licence ( that is issued by the DSA )

LGV training gives you forward planning and awareness… which is all that is taught by the IAM

Have you done your advanced driving & test
If, yes, then your comments are substanciated from your experience of both.
If no, then how do you come to that conclusion

Ouch that hurt Rog

But i will answer you … Yes i did it 15 years ago and to be honest i was not impressed as i just drove to the DSA test standard …in fact the standard was not as good as an LGV course taught by an experianced LGV instructor.

So my question’s to you

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

If no, then how do you come to that conclusion that you have the experiance to make so many statements about and against the DSA Standards ?

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
We had a chat about this in the chat room the other day and the opinion of 99% of those in the chat room felt that the IAM was just a money making scheme with no real benifits.

You pay … but what do you get you do not get a licence ( that is issued by the DSA )

LGV training gives you forward planning and awareness… which is all that is taught by the IAM

ROG:
Have you done your advanced driving & test
If, yes, then your comments are substanciated from your experience of both.
If no, then how do you come to that conclusion

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
Ouch that hurt Rog

Was only intended to assertain certain facts.

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
But i will answer you … Yes i did it 15 years ago and to be honest i was not impressed as i just drove to the DSA test standard …in fact the standard was not as good as an LGV course taught by an experianced LGV instructor.

A lot has changed in 15 years - Have you considered doing an AD assessment
One of the pitfalls with the IAM is that there is not a compulsory time assesment to see if a driver has kept up with modern standards - in this respect ROSPA is better as it requires a 3 year retesting.

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
So my question’s to you

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

I refer back to my first post in this thread about the HPT

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
If no, then how do you come to that conclusion that you have the experiance to make so many statements about and against the DSA Standards ?

Rosemary Thew and the other heads of the DSA said, when I met them in Leicester at one of the recent UK Consultation meetings, that the DSA is geared for basic driver training and delivery of that training for the first time road user.

They stated that for upgrading and further driver training that it was a little out of their hands (which I found odd) and that standards in upgrading could be assertained from the end results produced.

They also said that further driver training in order for a driver to progress beyond the basic DSA standard was best left to organisations such as the IAM & ROSPA but the DSA would be advertising these organisations more vigorously in the future in the hope that drivers will take up advanced or further training in order to bring down the UK casualty statistics.

The bottom line is that I am teaching DSA drivers to become safer, better drivers by using a different system than what they were originally taught with so my perception of the two is very apparent,
Pages 44 to 47 from the book MIND DRIVING by Stephen Haley explains this far better than I can

I hope this answers your questions

26 years an Lgv Trainer wrote:

So my question’s to you

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

ROG
I refer back to my first post in this thread about the HPT

I will repeat the question which was 2 parts…

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

Or was your answer No to both ? the HPT was not a question …

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
26 years an Lgv Trainer wrote:

So my question’s to you

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

ROG
I refer back to my first post in this thread about the HPT

I will repeat the question which was 2 parts…

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

Or was your answer No to both ? the HPT was not a question …

As the HPT is a requirement of the DSA then that answers that one

Just looked at the R.T.I.T.B. site and that course is £3654.00 and does not give the same accreditation as the DSA one If that had been an equivalent alternative to achieve the ADI badge then maybe it would be worth that price.

I still cannot figure why I would want the ADI badge in the first place though as I have no intention of teaching car learners for their first road licence which is what the DSA are all about as stated by the DSA themselves at the Leicester meeeting.

ROG:

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
26 years an Lgv Trainer wrote:

So my question’s to you

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

ROG
I refer back to my first post in this thread about the HPT

I will repeat the question which was 2 parts…

Have you ever taken the R.T.I.T.B …LGV Instructor Course ?
Have you ever Held The Dsa Reg Instructor Ticket ?

Or was your answer No to both ? the HPT was not a question …

As the HPT is a requirement of the DSA then that answers that one

Just looked at the R.T.I.T.B. site and that course is £3654.00 and does not give the same accreditation as the DSA one If that had been an equivalent alternative to achieve the ADI badge then maybe it would be worth that price.

I still cannot figure why I would want the ADI badge in the first place though as I have no intention of teaching car learners for their first road licence which is what the DSA are all about as stated by the DSA themselves at the Leicester meeeting.

The answer i guess then is NO on all counts of any form of certification of any type

Contempt and deserve spring to mind.

Let’s move on shall we

As for the eysight ■■■■ - up you should let them know and get your licence corrected…

26 years an Lgv Trainer:
As for the eysight ■■■■ - up you should let them know and get your licence corrected…

EH

Are you refering to this

I:
Unfortunately, my brain (not eyes) is unable to quickly recognise 3D hazards on a 2D screen so therefore I cannot do the HPT which is one of the first steps in the process to become an ADI.

this is getting quite interesting!!!

Come on now…put your handbags down ladies…its xmas time

bullitt:
this is getting quite interesting!!!

Come on now…put your handbags down ladies…its xmas time

I was just thinking the same bullitt.
Come on fellas, its not a competition to see who’s the best. My stepson is an ADI (the youngest one in the country at his time off passing we are led to believe) and he regularly knocks our wheelie bin over when reversing, drives with one arm out of the window and too fast. None of us are perfect.
'Tis the season of goodwill and all that

bullitt:
this is getting quite interesting!!!

I though so too - I was enjoying that debate

woody2808:
…None of us are perfect.

Be boring if we were as there would be nothing left to learn and that would take the fun out of driving for me

As a member of IAM, I fully support everything that IAM does.

I rarely get in the passenger side of a vehicle, but when I do I’m shocked at the standard of peoples driving.

Chiz:
As a member of IAM, I fully support everything that IAM does.

I rarely get in the passenger side of a vehicle, but when I do I’m shocked at the standard of peoples driving.

I bet you rarely find that if the car driver is also a trucker

I was a passenger whilst a friend of mine was driving recently, I was constantly pointing things out to him and checking his blind spots for him. I must have been a right pain in the backside but I reckon we wouldn’t have made it to our destination if I hadn’t did what I did.

His excuse was that he doesn’t drive on motorways that often, yet he was lacking basic skills.

He’s trained to DSA test standard, which speaks volumes if you ask me.

Chiz:
I was a passenger whilst a friend of mine was driving recently, I was constantly pointing things out to him and checking his blind spots for him. I must have been a right pain in the backside but I reckon we wouldn’t have made it to our destination if I hadn’t did what I did.

His excuse was that he doesn’t drive on motorways that often, yet he was lacking basic skills.

He’s trained to DSA test standard, which speaks volumes if you ask me.

Which probably means he’s never had a motorway driving lesson in his life!

Most ADI’s offer them, (long before and independently of the Pass Plus scheme) the take up rate is asbysmal.

Anyone teaching for money (or money’s worth) in anything other than LGV, (or large buses?) legally requires ADI registration.

However i believe there is an exemption for Advanced Driving OBSERVORS.

Thread read Rog, thank you for your reply here to my earlier comments in the other thread.

Driveroneuk:
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Anyone teaching for money (or money’s worth) in anything other than LGV, (or large buses?) legally requires ADI registration.

However i believe there is an exemption for Advanced Driving OBSERVORS.

AD observers do not get paid and are not allowed to give ‘instruction’ but do give advise or ‘teach’

when I leaning my theory and HPT the instructor told us if you have douts about HPT the one that sometimes works is not thinking about but just clicking the mouse button every other seconded and you may pass one of the trainees did what he said and passed got 71 out of 75 he did better than me only got 65 out 75 so must of worked for him, the trainer said after how did you find it .he said, don’t know just kept clicking

Del

Chiz:
I was a passenger whilst a friend of mine was driving recently, I was constantly pointing things out to him and checking his blind spots for him. I must have been a right pain in the backside but I reckon we wouldn’t have made it to our destination if I hadn’t did what I did.

His excuse was that he doesn’t drive on motorways that often, yet he was lacking basic skills.

He’s trained to DSA test standard, which speaks volumes if you ask me.

I have a relative who is a former ADI, then Police instructor and then LGV C&E driver. He agrees with me that the DSA standard is very basic whatever you do it in. My personal experience is that the average ADI is only trained to the basic driving test standard (as verified by the many who join our group expecting to walk through their advanced test and have a nasty shock) and are not as knowledgable as they like to believe.

Advanced driving is based on attitude as much as actual performance. The majority of LGV drivers have the observation and planning skills equal to most advanced tests, but are often let down by their “I know it all because I am a LGV driver” attitude. This does not mean that they are not good drivers, but that they need to reconsider their attitude to maintain the high standards we should all be able to demand from professional drivers.