Reduced weekly rest compensation requirements

Continued from this thread to avoid hijacking someone else’s thread.

Coffeeholic:

tachograph:
Hope you don’t mind me jumping on this thread but I’m trying to understand where in the regulations it says that a reduced weekly rest doesn’t need to be compensated for if it’s only taken to end the 6x24 hour period

I can see how it makes good sense for it to be that way, but still it doesn’t seem to fit with the regulations as far as I can see

It fits perfectly with the regulations when you remember the regulations only require a driver to take one weekly rest period per fixed week and the regulations clearly state this.

In any two consecutive weeks a driver shall take at least:
– two regular weekly rest periods, or
– one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly
rest period of at least 24 hours.

Note the at least bit. You only have to do the minimum to meet the requirements of the regulations and the minimum in this case is one weekly rest period per fixed week. It’s all about reading and understanding the regulations and making sure the minimum requirements are met. The regulations don’t specifically say the second rest period in a week needs compensating for because they don’t need to, the one rest per week requirement shows that to be the case. If the extra rest period did require compensating the regulations would in fact have to state it, which they don’t.

So, in a week where a driver takes two weekly rest periods obviously only one of them is needed to meet the requirements of the regulations as two are more than the minimum requirement. Any additional weekly rest periods applying to the same week, be they reduced or regular, are surplus to minimum requirements be it because the driver took a day off or simply to prevent the driver working more than 6x24-hour periods without a weekly rest. In the case in this thread, by taking a full weekly rest period the the weekly rest requirements have been fulfilled for the week and therefore no compensation is required for the reduced rest.

If two reduced weekly rests are taken applying to a single fixed week then because the minimum requirements for the regulations is one weekly rest period, only one needs compensating for.

It is part of the same thing which allows a driver to take two consecutive reduced weekly rest periods in any two consecutive weeks, as long as at least one of the weeks also has a regular weekly rest applying to it. In that sort of case the second reduced weekly rest is usually only to prevent the driver working more than 6x24-hour periods. You will still hear many drivers wrongly claiming you can’t to back to back reduced weekly rests but you know this isn’t true.

Think of this scenario.

Week 1

Monday - resume work after regular weekly rest

Tuesday - Saturday work which brings upo 6x24 hour periods.

Sunday - reduced weekly rest.

Week 2

Monday and Tuesday work

Rest from 18:00 Tuesday - 06:00 Thursday which is long enough to be a reduced weekly rest.

Friday - work

Saturday and Sunday Regular weekly rest

Monday resume work.

Would you say the rest in the middle of week 2 required compensating for? It doesn’t.

It wasn’t there to prevent the driver working more than 6x24-hour periods, it was simply because the driver took a day off and a daily rest became long enough to become a weekly rest. He has met the requirements of the regulations by having at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest in any two week period. Reduced in week 1 and regular in week 2 so the extra one needs no compensation.

Maybe I’m being thick but I still can’t see it

I understand and agree about the minimum weekly rest requirements for a fixed week
However the way I see it the regulations also require a minimum of a weekly rest or reduced weekly rest after six 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period, and this is where I have trouble getting my head round the idea of a reduced weekly rest not needing to be compensated for.

It seems to me that there are two weekly rest minimum requirements, one minimum requirement for a weekly rest in each fixed week, and another minimum requirement for a weekly rest no later than the end of six consecutive 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest and this is why the regulations state that:
In any two consecutive weeks a driver shall take at least:
– two regular weekly rest periods, or
– one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly
rest period of at least 24 hours…

This seems to me to be the minimum requirement after six 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period

Drivers hours and tachograph rules:
A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from
the end of the last weekly rest period.

Drivers hours and tachograph rules:
A regular weekly rest period is a period of at least 45 consecutive hours.

And the quote below seems to be the minimum requirement for a reduced weekly rest period, but nowhere can I find where it says that a reduced weekly rest period doesn’t have to be compensated for if another weekly rest or a reduced weekly rest is taken in the same week, on the contrary it seems to me to be saying that where a reduced weekly rest is taken it must be compensated for.

Drivers hours and tachograph rules:
Alternatively, a driver can take a reduced weekly rest period of a minimum of 24 consecutive hours.
If a reduction is taken, it must be compensated for by an equivalent period of rest taken in one block
before the end of the third week following the week in question.

In your example I agree that the rest period in the middle of week 2 doesn’t need compensating for, but that’s because a weekly rest was taken (Saturday and Sunday) within the six 24 hour periods from the end of the reduced weekly rest on the previous Sunday, and either the Sunday’s reduced weekly rest or the Saturday and Sunday weekly rest will count for week 2.

Coffeeholic:
It’s all about reading and understanding the regulations and making sure the minimum requirements are met

Precisely what I’m trying to do

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

I look at it this way;

in any two consecutive weeks, a driver must take at least; two regular weekly rest periods or one regular and one reduced.

the key words are; at least. The legislation says nothing about taking ‘extra’ weekly rest periods.

In week one I take 45 hours (a regular weekly rest).

In week two I take 36 hours (a reduced weekly rest, which requires compensatory rest of nine hours, added to a rest period of at least 9 hours, to be taken before the end of the thirds week following the week of the reduction, week 5 - in this instance).

In week three I take a weekly rest period of 24 hours (let’s say Wednesday) then take a regular weekly rest period of 45 hours commencing at 18:00 on Sunday of week 3. Because I’ve reduced weekly rest in week two, the regular weekly rest that started in week three and finished at 15:00 Tuesday (of week 4) MUST be ‘attached’ to week three to maintain the pattern of ‘weeks’ containing regular or reduced rest periods. The regulation allows me to count a rest period that crosses Midnight Sunday>Monday in either one week or the other but not both.

If we now consider the weekly rest I’ve had in the three weeks;

week one; regular
week two; reduced
week three; regular

There is no requirement to compensate for the first weekly rest period I took in week three, because later that week I took a regular weekly rest period and that is the one that counts with regard to compensation.

Hope it helps the understanding

tachograph:
Continued from this thread to avoid hijacking someone else’s thread.

Maybe I’m being thick but I still can’t see it

Well if you say so, I didn’t say you were thick.

tachograph:
I understand and agree about the minimum weekly rest requirements for a fixed week

Well there you go then, if you understand that bit you will see minimum of one rest per fixed week and that answers your question.

tachograph:
However the way I see it the regulations also require a minimum of a weekly rest or reduced weekly rest after six 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period,

That is only to prevent working more than 6x24-hour periods.

tachograph:
and this is where I have trouble getting my head round the idea of a reduced weekly rest not needing to be compensated for.

You are getting confused because you are missing the obvious in that if you have taken, or take later in the week, a regular weekly rest period you satisfy the requirements of the regulations regarding weekly rest periods and the reduced doesn’t then need compensating for. If you take two reduced, and remember only one is required by the regulations, you only need to compensate one, you don’t need to compensate both.

tachograph:
It seems to me that there are two weekly rest minimum requirements, one minimum requirement for a weekly rest in each fixed week, and another minimum requirement for a weekly rest no later than the end of six consecutive 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest

Exactly, but you are lumping those two things together when they are different and that is leading to your confusion.

tachograph:
and this is why the regulations state that:
In any two consecutive weeks a driver shall take at least:
– two regular weekly rest periods, or
– one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly
rest period of at least 24 hours…

And that just proves my point that in any fixed week you must have a minimum of one weekly rest period regardless of the number of 24-hour periods you work, between one and six.

tachograph:
This seems to me to be the minimum requirement after six 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period

Drivers hours and tachograph rules:
A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from
the end of the last weekly rest period.

Yes, and that is a different requirement from the section previously quoted. The first quote makes no mention of 6x24 hour periods, only the minimum required in any fixed week, or indeed any two fixed weeks. The second is about preventing a driver doing more than six shifts without a weekly rest.

tachograph:
And the quote below seems to be the minimum requirement for a reduced weekly rest period, but nowhere can I find where it says that a reduced weekly rest period doesn’t have to be compensated for if another weekly rest or a reduced weekly rest is taken in the same week,

It doesn’t need to say it because the fact you only need one rest period in a week covers that situation. In fact if a reduced rest did need compensating for when it is taken in the same fixed week as another weekly rest the regulations would need to make this clear, the fact it doesn’t tells you everything you need to know about the situation…

tachograph:
on the contrary it seems to me to be saying that where a reduced weekly rest is taken it must be compensated for.

Drivers hours and tachograph rules:
Alternatively, a driver can take a reduced weekly rest period of a minimum of 24 consecutive hours.
If a reduction is taken, it must be compensated for by an equivalent period of rest taken in one block
before the end of the third week following the week in question.

Only when it is there is no continuous period of at least 45 hours, a regular weekly rest, applying to the week.

tachograph:
In your example I agree that the rest period in the middle of week 2 doesn’t need compensating for, but that’s because a weekly rest was taken (Saturday and Sunday) within the six 24 hour periods from the end of the reduced weekly rest on the previous Sunday, and either the Sunday’s reduced weekly rest or the Saturday and Sunday weekly rest will count for week 2.

If you can see that then you must be able to see that regardless of the number of shifts a reduced weekly rest doesn’t need to be compensated for when it falls in a fixed week with another weekly rest. It isn’t the number of shifts that trigger the compensation requirement, it is whether a regular weekly rest counts for the week or not. If a regular weekly rest is counted for a week no compensation is required, if a regular weekly rest doesn’t count toward a fixed week compensation is required.

tachograph:

Coffeeholic:
It’s all about reading and understanding the regulations and making sure the minimum requirements are met

Precisely what I’m trying to do
[/quote]

But it’s so bleeding obvious it hurts. Don’t be confused about a weekly rest triggered by the number of shifts worked, concentrate on the minimum requirements for weekly rest per fixed week. They are two different beasts.

It is very, very simple.

If your fixed week contains a regular weekly rest period then no compensation is required. If your fixed week does not contain a regular weekly rest period than compensation will be required. Or to put it another way. The regulations require a continuous period of 45 hours of weekly rest per fixed week and if you haver 45 continuous hours applying to a fixed week you have met that requirement. If you don’t manage to get a continuous 45 hours in, you can take any amount between 24 and 45 hours but that means your week doesn’t have a continuous 45 hours applying to it and compensation is required. Once you have a continuous period of 45 hours applying to a fixed week then no compensation requirements apply to that week, regardless of other weekly rests taken or number of shifts worked.

That’s it in a nutshell.

Obviously if no shifts are worked than no weekly rest is required.

Geebee45 posted his reply while I was typing mine, I got distracted halfway through typing mine.

Giblsa:
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

No fight. The horses mouth has spoken, no offence intended geebee45, and confirms what I already said.

Still undefeated. I’ll stick Tachograph’s scalp up on my wall next to the likes of X-cop, ROG and many others.

This is such an interesting thread that I thought it might be good to keep it all together - I hope you guys don’t mind too much…

Coffeeholic:
Geebee45 posted his reply while I was typing mine, I got distracted halfway through typing mine.

geebee45:
Postie;

I’ve looked back to your original post (sorry, couldn’t resist that one ). As far as I’m concerned YOU ARE NOT IN TROUBLE…

I suggest that your Transport Manager starts reading what is actually written in the Regulations as opposed to what they think is written there. Mind you, we are all guilty of that, sometimes.

You said that your employer is using a software system to keep track of hours. Many systems are written by very clever people who know diddly squat about drivers hours. Systems make certain assumptions as there are simply too many ‘what / if’ arguments otherwise.

So, relax and go to work with a big smug grin on your face.

By the way, the 33 hours and 53 minutes rest you had means you owe the system 11 hours 7 minutes compensatory rest, added to a rest period of at least 9 hours and taken sometime before Midnight Sunday the 22nd or 29th June. Depending upon which week you decided to attach the reduced weekly rest to. Hope you did that

Coffeeholic:

geebee45:
By the way, the 33 hours and 53 minutes rest you had means you owe the system 11 hours 7 minutes compensatory rest, added to a rest period of at least 9 hours and taken sometime before Midnight Sunday the 22nd or 29th June.

Depending upon which week you decided to attach the reduced weekly rest to. Hope you did that

He had already had a Regular Weekly Rest in the week before that rest, Week 1, so surely if he attaches it to Week 1, he wouldn’t need to compensate for it as he has a regular period attached to Week 1 already, over 26th May to 1st June? If he attaches it to Week 2, he may have to compensate for it but then he wouldn’t then have to compensate for the reduced weekly rest at the end Week 2, over 7th - 9th June, of 34 hours and 59 minutes? Surely he only needs to compensate for one of those and it doesn’t make too much difference which one?

In Week 3 he took a Regular Rest Period of 62 hours and 2 minutes, over 10th, 11th and 12th June, which takes care of compensating for whichever one of the first two reductions need it, and a reduced of 36 hours 17 minutes, over 15th, 16th June, which again surely won’t need compensating for as he has a regular rest period attached to Week 3?