Morning all. I’ve just acquired this rather splendid picture of one of the 10 or so Atkinson CLTs that were built with left-hand-drive and Krupp cabs. A little has been posted here and there on the forum, but I thought that this model deserves a thread to itself. Robert 
Rather than paraphrase information from other threads, I have cut and pasted for you here some comments by ‘240Gardner’ and ‘Crashbox’ both of whom are far better-informed than I am about these rare vehicles. Robert
VALKYRIE wrote:What did the CLT letters in the CLT.3846RR model designation mean?
240Gardner replied:
Continental Left hand drive Tractor! Incidentally, I am sitting here looking at the chassis build cards for five of them - all were built with the RR220 engine not the 265, though they were a mix of sleeper and day cab.
They also had power steering and spring brakes, not customary on an Atkinson tractor in 1969. Chassis number FC17209 apparently cost £5089 6s 0d to build! The day cab from Krupp was costed at £1288 17s 9d, whilst the RR engine cost £1038, including installation fittings. The ZF gearbox accounted for £347 8s 5d and the Kirkstall 13 ton axle was £490 4s 10d.
The Krupp-cabbed Atki was the spearhead of their assault on Europe in 1968/9, an effort which included setting up a new subsidiary company in Antwerp. The range consisted of 38 ton (not tonnes!) tractors, with day or sleeper tilt cabs, and a 6x4 rigid. The tractors had 220 Rolls engines, ZF 6-speed gearbox and Kirkstall driving axle. A 260bhp of the engine was supposedly available (no reference to any gearbox upgrade): however, although I have several original build cards for these motors, all are shown to have the 220. I’m not positive about the number built, although Comberhill Commercials were advertising a choice of 10 in 1970 - that might have been all of them!
Also from 240Gardner:
As far as I’m aware, only the one rigid was built, and it subsequently ended up in Jamaica, where Atkinsonhad a number of loyal customers. One of the early test photos of it shows an RR badge, but another shot, taken in Jamaica, shows a ■■■■■■■ badge.
Quite what project longevity could have been achieved by buying cabs from a manufacturer who has just ceased production, has always puzzled me. As it was, the cabs came from Krupp fully-trimmed and even instrumented, so they were very un-Atkinson-like inside. There were mechanical changes compared with the ‘Silver Knight’ of the period, in terms of axle weights, softer springs, etc., but not enough to convince our Continental cousins, clearly!
Crashbox wrote:
Just joined this site and saw the post about the Atkinson with a Krupp cab. I use to drive one of these in late 1972. It was operated by a haulier called BurnAlec of water lane in Watford and I was on contact to MAT Brittania whose office was in Holywell Lane London EC1.The two guys in the office at MAT were George Attepa and Lib Decesare. I use to run to Greece and Italy. Geurge ended up with his own haulage company ruuning to Greece and Cyprus ( Mondial Shipping ) and Lib ended up with his own forwarding agents (ItalSped).Some years later when I ran my own truck I use to get loads from Lib down to Italy, mainly from Perkins engines in Peterborough.
Back to the Atkinson with the Krupp Cab it had a Rolls Royce 220 Eagle engine and a ZF gearbox. It only ever let me down once and that was in Milan when the water pump failed. A mechanic from a marine engineers came out to me and carried out the repair. The 220 Eagle also had a marine application.
I use to take it on occasions to an Atkinson dealer in South London for servicimg.
At the time there was an owner driver called Ray Toure or tor and he ran one and on one occasion we both took a load down to Halkis near Athens Greece.the load was 20 tonnes of glass each for a commercial greenhouse we loaded near Winchester.
This (or these) were in the service of Vanneste, Belgium. The lower 2 pics are courtesy of Tip-top (Eric). Robert 
The thing that perplexes me about this lorry is it’s underused potential. It clearly did long-haul TIR work across Europe, even to Malta. I know that 220 bhp and a 6-speed 'box was not bad going for the end of the '60s, but they would only have needed to up the ante a little - say a 280 Roller with a 9-speed Fuller - to get ahead of the game in the early '70s. Better still a 335 ■■■■■■■ and 13-speed Fuller!
Even with the acceptable drive-line for the period, one wonders why it didn’t go anywhere. I imagine it was the same story as the other UK manufacturers: insufficient back-up and investment. Still, it was a plucky little unit for its time! Robert
The front wheels on the rigid wrecker must have been way out of balance judging by the weights on the o/s.
This appears to be that one-off rigid again. Notice that it has a day-cab! Robert
And here’s a better version of a picture shown earlier, borrowed from Flikr. Robert
Just found this piece in a Commercial Motor archive from 24th January 1969. Robert
The first stage of Atkinsons’ plans for marketing in Europe were announced at the end of July last year when Atkinson Vehicles Europe SA, was formed and brief details of the chassis under development were given. Because of a late decision to exhibit at Brussels it is unfortunate that the chassis appears outside the exhibition hall. But a journey into the cold is worth while to inspect the tractive unit which uses the tilt cab employed by Krupp before that make went out of production. The main change is the incorporation of an Atkinson radiator grille at the front of the cab and while at present surplus units are being bought from Krupp, Atkinson may purchase the dies if there is sufficient sales potential.
A sleeper-cab is shown on the new tractive unit—a normal cab is also offered —and the chassis has a Rolls-Royce 220 bhp diesel driving through a ZF gearbox to a Kirkstall rear axle. The model is rated for operation at 38 tons gross combination weight and is to be available with alternative equipment including the Rolls-Royce 260 bhp diesel. There is ZF power steering, Westinghouse braking equipment including load-sensing of the driving axle circuit, spring-type parking brakes and Cary Laminaire suspension is used at the rear together with an anti-roll bar.
Are there any surviving Krupp/Atkis anywhere that anybody knows of?
robert1952:
Just found this piece in a Commercial Motor archive from 24th January 1969. Robert…while at present surplus units are being bought from Krupp, Atkinson may purchase the dies if there is sufficient sales potential…
The answer to your earlier question is in that. The dies would have been available for scrap value plus a bit so, for a manufacturer looking to do things on a shoestring (IE a British one!), Atki had a good opportunity. The cost of setting up a sales/service network across Europe would have been the killer, I guess. Nevertheless, a proper effort to market the CLT would have provided a springboard for the 400. Instead, that vehicle’s European potential was stymied by Atkinson’s being an unknown quantity on the Continent.
Every climb starts with the first step and metres/miles…well, had ERF or Foden better cards on the continent?
Seddon was KNOWN in both Holland (by Van Twist/Perkins) and Begium (by Hocké) whereas Foden was a long
time on the shortlist of several operators, e.g. Haukes with their many 8-leggers, tippers.
I doubt if a sales- respectively service network would be very expensive…that being said the British industry
on automotives was undergoing major steps in assembly and then you could ‘easily’ piggyback on the existing
network for ZF, Eaton, Bosch, Armstrong, Bendix Westinghouse, Don, Até and the list is much longer.
ERF did some serious (and sober) attempts by involving ■■■■■■■ with both dealers and service-points, as in
Germany…but also Italy was already a frequent application for engines in marine and construction. That extra
sales-agent is a person you can ‘easily’ add to your staff and judge on sales. Quote Dai Davies with reference to
the expensive market-surveyors not knowing what transportation is about.
On the other hand (quote Van Steenbergen) the operators themselves were very keen on preventing breakdowns
and when they had they acted fast on their own with spares on hand or within 1.5hours drive. CDB was known
for strping lorries on hand for that vital special part. So Seddon, later the merge, Foden and other might do so.
Very interesting replies Anorak and A-J. I sometimes wonder if at the end of the day the success of these kinds of ventures doesn’t often depend of individuals who not only have the will to commit themselves to living abroad and fully engaging with another culture, but also possess the tenacity to really make things happen. Robert
Robert…in fact we all (on the continent) did with these challenges offered! Operators, often via members
of the family, or boards of directors should inevstigate and then pursuade to several ventures. On the other
hand all kind of media (magazines, unions, …) made their point in positively/negatively judging the marque.
With all respect…in Germany the Krupp-cabbed Atkinson would gain raised eyebrows at least, not to say
a breakdown with other “strange” components like Rolls Royce or David Brown/Spicer would end up to very
long ‘out of operation’ and that had nothing or less to do with disliking non-German marques.
Deciding for a certain lorrie (respectively several solid but for outside folks unproven/strange components)
results in certains risks…but out of experience (non-metric etc) one might be confident to be stand-by in
case of breakdowns. I remember some minor breakdowns (Van Steenbergen) where action was important.
Drivers can/will stay wherever they are at that particular moment and place, being also ‘convinced’ that at
the end the operator will do its utmost to get everything on the road again, not to forget the customer who
is awaiting for unloading/loading their valuable load promissed at a certain time.
I do respect the decisions to purchase a ‘strange/non-common’ lorry…and their energy to pursuade their
drivers, mechanics and staff to believe in the automotive performance of marque XYZ. Nowadays the choice
to do something strange is no longer there, unless you like to live the risky way.
Bumped up for Fergie! robert
robert1952:
[attachment=1]continental_18066.jpg
This one belonged to Dixons Pork of Ashton u Lyne, I remember it being a regular visistor to Sunderland when I was somewhat younger.