Try as I might, I cannot find in the regulations any requirement for a statutory daily break other than the 10 hour daily driving limit. Does anybody know the exact situation in that respect?
Ragnarok:
Try as I might, I cannot find in the regulations any requirement for a statutory daily break other than the 10 hour daily driving limit. Does anybody know the exact situation in that respect?
You cannot find it because there are no statutory breaks for LGV domestic regs
UK domestic regs come under the normal WTD and in that there are sentences like - the employee is ‘entiitled to’ certain breaks but that does not mean they are mandatory
Following this, If I am picking up animal waste in a container could I make that journey under domestic hours until I reach the dock, looked at exemptions to EU driving hours and one is, “Vehicles used for carrying animal waste or carcasses which are not intended for human consumption” at the loading point they put a sticker on the rear of the container saying catergory 3 unfit for human consumption.
Was just wondering if I would be or not, covered by EU or domestic hours.
The load was untreated/very fresh sheepskins.
weeto:
Following this, If I am picking up animal waste in a container could I make that journey under domestic hours until I reach the dock, looked at exemptions to EU driving hours and one is, “Vehicles used for carrying animal waste or carcasses which are not intended for human consumption” at the loading point they put a sticker on the rear of the container saying catergory 3 unfit for human consumption.
Was just wondering if I would be or not, covered by EU or domestic hours.
The load was untreated/very fresh sheepskins.
IMO - I would say domestic regs for that trip - both ways if returning empty or with similar - just my opinion
ROG:
weeto:
Following this, If I am picking up animal waste in a container could I make that journey under domestic hours until I reach the dock, looked at exemptions to EU driving hours and one is, “Vehicles used for carrying animal waste or carcasses which are not intended for human consumption” at the loading point they put a sticker on the rear of the container saying catergory 3 unfit for human consumption.
Was just wondering if I would be or not, covered by EU or domestic hours.
The load was untreated/very fresh sheepskins.IMO - I would say domestic regs for that trip - both ways if returning empty or with similar - just my opinion
I did wonder ta, so would that be were you would use the out of scope mode on the digi tacho?
weeto:
I did wonder ta, so would that be were you would use the out of scope mode on the digi tacho?
If it IS under domestic (please check with VOSA) then yes, use out of scope in case the return load is under EU regs
ROG:
weeto:
I did wonder ta, so would that be were you would use the out of scope mode on the digi tacho?If it IS under domestic (please check with VOSA) then yes, use out of scope in case the return load is under EU regs
Thanks Rog, dont do them all that often, but will check could be handy if the run down to the dock is more than 4 and a half hours.
ROG:
weeto:
I did wonder ta, so would that be were you would use the out of scope mode on the digi tacho?If it IS under domestic (please check with VOSA) then yes, use out of scope in case the return load is under EU regs
Mmmmm … so. He drives to the destination with not for human consumption animal carcasses. This is on Domestic rules and he puts the digi out of scope. lets say he drives 5 hours non stop.
Then return load he’s carrying normal pallets - so now under EU Regs. This would mean at this point he hasn’t done any driving - the 5 hours counts as work for EU regs! So he could now get 9 hours driving in leaving just enough time for his breaks.
it does get confusing when the different rules cross over.
shep532:
ROG:
weeto:
I did wonder ta, so would that be were you would use the out of scope mode on the digi tacho?If it IS under domestic (please check with VOSA) then yes, use out of scope in case the return load is under EU regs
Mmmmm … so. He drives to the destination with not for human consumption animal carcasses. This is on Domestic rules and he puts the digi out of scope. lets say he drives 5 hours non stop.
Then return load he’s carrying normal pallets - so now under EU Regs. This would mean at this point he hasn’t done any driving - the 5 hours counts as work for EU regs! So he could now get 9 hours driving in leaving just enough time for his breaks.
it does get confusing when the different rules cross over.
The way I have read it is, EU driving hours take presidence, so 5 hours on domestic, then return to EU hours, leave me 5 hours left for the day, if I have a 10 hour drive left.
weeto:
shep532:
ROG:
weeto:
I did wonder ta, so would that be were you would use the out of scope mode on the digi tacho?If it IS under domestic (please check with VOSA) then yes, use out of scope in case the return load is under EU regs
Mmmmm … so. He drives to the destination with not for human consumption animal carcasses. This is on Domestic rules and he puts the digi out of scope. lets say he drives 5 hours non stop.
Then return load he’s carrying normal pallets - so now under EU Regs. This would mean at this point he hasn’t done any driving - the 5 hours counts as work for EU regs! So he could now get 9 hours driving in leaving just enough time for his breaks.
it does get confusing when the different rules cross over.
The way I have read it is, EU driving hours take presidence, so 5 hours on domestic, then return to EU hours, leave me 5 hours left for the day, if I have a 10 hour drive left.
But driving of the domestic vehicle is other work under EU regs. By definition driving for EU regs is the time recorded on the tachograph as driving - completely different than the definition of driving for domestic rules.
However - I would stick to what you have said and count the domestic driving as driving. In fact I would work under EU rules for the whole shift. Much safer.
When both regs are used in the same shift the whole shift then becomes an EU regs shift
Domestic driving in the above shift counts as other work for that shift
simple really
you’re all wrong.
- there is no break specified in domestic regs. you can drive for 10 hours, but the working day can’t exceed 11 hours.
- you are not governed by the WTD, it’s the road transport directive (RTD).
- you will not be under EU rules on your way to get the trailer, as you are picking up animal carcases.
- if the trailer is from another EU country, then it will be under CMR regs, therefore you are continuing an EU journey, so you will be under EU regs and not domestic regs.
ROG:
When both regs are used in the same shift the whole shift then becomes an EU regs shift
Domestic driving in the above shift counts as other work for that shift
simple really
Now I thought it ‘could’ become an EU shift … I thought you had the option to comply with whatever rules for the vehicle at the time - OR - stay under EU regs.
So that would mean 5 hours of out of scope on the way there would be 5 hours of work - he could then drive 9 hours under EU regs on the way back. Crazy
shep532:
ROG:
When both regs are used in the same shift the whole shift then becomes an EU regs shift
Domestic driving in the above shift counts as other work for that shift
simple reallyNow I thought it ‘could’ become an EU shift … I thought you had the option to comply with whatever rules for the vehicle at the time - OR - stay under EU regs.
So that would mean 5 hours of out of scope on the way there would be 5 hours of work - he could then drive 9 hours under EU regs on the way back. Crazy
Would you be able to, if you can only work for 11 hrs. It would mean doing at least 14 hrs just with driving!
ROG:
When both regs are used in the same shift the whole shift then becomes an EU regs shift
Domestic driving in the above shift counts as other work for that shift
simple really
Sorry but that’s wrong on just about every level, including the bit about it being simple apparently 
EU driving counts as driving for the domestic regulations and the domestic driving limits and duty limits still have to be obeyed where a mixed shift is concerned.
shep532:
Now I thought it ‘could’ become an EU shift … I thought you had the option to comply with whatever rules for the vehicle at the time - OR - stay under EU regs.So that would mean 5 hours of out of scope on the way there would be 5 hours of work - he could then drive 9 hours under EU regs on the way back. Crazy
I see no reason why you could not stay on EU regulations for the entire shift if you wished to, in fact given that domestic rules restrict you to 11 hours duty time I would have thought that staying on EU regulations would usually be seen as advantageous to mixing the regulations.
No he couldn’t because he still has to obey the rules on domestic driving limits, so 5 hours driving under domestic rules leaves 5 hours driving under EU regulations, see my reply to ROG above 
limeyphil:
- there is no break specified in domestic regs. you can drive for 10 hours, but the working day can’t exceed 11 hours.
- you are not governed by the WTD, it’s the road transport directive (RTD).
- you will not be under EU rules on your way to get the trailer, as you are picking up animal carcases.
- if the trailer is from another EU country, then it will be under CMR regs, therefore you are continuing an EU journey, so you will be under EU regs and not domestic regs.
- When working to domestic regulations a driver comes under the general working time regulations not the RT(WT)R 2005.
- Sorry but I’m confused as to where CMR enters into the equation, my understanding is that CMR controls transport contracts and therefore has nothing to do with drivers regulations.
I’ll wait to be corrected on that one though because I know nothing of CMR and am not interested enough to learn about it
tachograph:
EU driving counts as driving for the domestic regulations and the domestic driving limits and duty limits still have to be obeyed where a mixed shift is concerned.
Rubbish
If that was true then a driver doing both in a shift could only work a total of 11 hours and we know thats not correct
EU usurps domestic in all cases
ROG:
tachograph:
EU driving counts as driving for the domestic regulations and the domestic driving limits and duty limits still have to be obeyed where a mixed shift is concerned.Rubbish
If that was true then a driver doing both in a shift could only work a total of 11 hours and we know thats not correct
Feel free to show us where in the regulations it says that you can work more than 11 hours duty time when on mixed regulations.
Also feel free to show us where in the regulations it says that EU driving does not count as driving for the domestic regulations.
tachograph:
Also feel free to show us where in the regulations it says that EU driving does not count as driving for the domestic regulations.
In none of the regs does it state that the driver must conform to domestic regs when under eu regs - unless you have evidence that I have never seen ?
ROG:
tachograph:
Also feel free to show us where in the regulations it says that EU driving does not count as driving for the domestic regulations.In none of the regs does it state that the driver must conform to domestic regs when under eu regs - unless you have evidence that I have never seen ?
This thread is about working under mixed EU and domestic regulations in the same shift, obviously I meant that when you’re working to both EU regulations and domestic regulations in the same shift the domestic daily driving limits and domestic daily duty limits have to be obeyed.
As you’ve stated differently, feel free to show us where it says in any regulations that you can ignore the domestic daily driving limits or domestic daily duty limits when doing a mixed shift.