44 ton Vehicle & Trailer Axel Weights & VTG6

Good Afternoon all (New here).

I am looking for some information on axel weights if anyone can assist. Specifically against what the VTG6 plate means. The unit is 6x2 Units with a Tri Axel 13.6m trailer with a combination weight of 44 ton.

When looking at the VTG6 plate. Can someone explain to me what the following means:

Axel 1: 9000
Axel 2: 11500
Axel 3: 7500

In relation to the above. Here is the figures for the unit and trailer.

The GVW of the unit is 7,500 and the trailer weight empty with fuel only is 10,900. so Combined empty is 18,400. So, i assume this means I have 25,600 to load to. Each Axel on the trailer can take 8,000.

Can someone explain to me, what Axel 1, 2 and 3 mean retrospectivity on the VTG. I have tried to find simple versions or calculators to work this out but cannot any information that is not simple and clear to understand.

Can anyone help - thank you in advance.

Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .

Punchy Dan:
Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .

So does this mean

Axel 1: permitted weight of the cab, driver and everything cannot exceed 9 ton.

Axel 2: Drive axel cannot exceed 11500, or 10500 if running 44 ton.

Axel 3: Drive / Fifth wheel cannot exceed 7,500

Then each trailer axel cannot exceed 8,000 - or am i way way off here. Am reading this stuff, but i cannot get it to register.

On the VTG6 you have weights not to be exceeded.

As long as you don’t exceed those weights on each individual axle you’re good to go. Ignore the fact they add up to more than 44 tonnes in total, that’s irrelevant. Ignore the design weights which are usually anything from a couple of hundred kilogrammes to couple of tonnes higher depending on what the unit was originally specced for, they’re not the ones you’ll get prosecuted for.

I’m guessing by the fact Axle 3 is 7500kg and Axle 2 is 11500kg that it’s a 3 axle unit with a rear lift axle and not a mid lift. Axle 2 in that case is the drive axle, not axle 3.

The drive axle max weight is 11500kg if that’s what is on the plate. It doesn’t drop just because you’re running 44 tonnes.

Punchy Dan:
Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .

I once used to have a DAF3200 in the mid 90s which had been used on heavy haulage and was running some seriously high weights axle weights for even now. It’s design weights were something like 60 tonnes train weight, damned thing was bombproof.

TrumanShow:

Punchy Dan:
Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .

So does this mean

Axel 1: permitted weight of the cab, driver and everything cannot exceed 9 ton.

Axel 2: Drive axel cannot exceed 11500, or 10500 if running 44 ton.

Axel 3: Drive / Fifth wheel cannot exceed 7,500

Then each trailer axel cannot exceed 8,000 - or am i way way off here. Am reading this stuff, but i cannot get it to register.

Max permitted design weights of each axle not the max permitted combined weight of each axle.
You ain’t going to load a 3 axle unit to 28t let alone a typical mickey mouse 6x2 set up.
Around 8t per trailer axle is about right.That leaves around 20t distributed on the unit.Doubt if that would ever get even close to 9t on the steer without some serious weight distribution issues.

Conor:
On the VTG6 you have weights not to be exceeded.

As long as you don’t exceed those weights on each individual axle you’re good to go. Ignore the fact they add up to more than 44 tonnes in total, that’s irrelevant. Ignore the design weights which are usually anything from a couple of hundred kilogrammes to couple of tonnes higher depending on what the unit was originally specced for, they’re not the ones you’ll get prosecuted for.

I’m guessing by the fact Axle 3 is 7500kg and Axle 2 is 11500kg that it’s a 3 axle unit with a rear lift axle and not a mid lift. Axle 2 in that case is the drive axle, not axle 3.

The drive axle max weight is 11500kg if that’s what is on the plate. It doesn’t drop just because you’re running 44 tonnes.

Punchy Dan:
Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .

I once used to have a DAF3200 in the mid 90s which had been used on heavy haulage and was running some seriously high weights axle weights for even now. It’s design weights were something like 60 tonnes train weight, damned thing was bombproof.

Good explination. But I am not registering this

Axel 1: is the front wheels of the cab. And cannot exceed 9 ton. Correct or wrong.

Axel 2 and 3: 11500 and 7500 is a rear lift axel. So these can take up to 18000. Correct or wrong

Trailer axels: are 8,000 each so 24000.

But the numbers dont add up. 8 x 3 = 24000 plus the 18 ton on the drive axel is a total weight of 42000 and 2 short of the plated 44000

Ah yeah I get where you’re coming from now. No you’re not going mad. I remember this coming up before, I can’t remember what the outcome of that discussion was though.

Really?

Did you forget the steer axle when totalising, you have more to play with than most 3 axle tractors, which typically are 7t front, anything from 4.5 tons upwards on a mid lift and up to 11.5 tons drive axle.

When you said the GVW of the unit is 7.5ton, isn’t that the tare weight of the tractor rather than the GVW.

TrumanShow:

Conor:
On the VTG6 you have weights not to be exceeded.

As long as you don’t exceed those weights on each individual axle you’re good to go. Ignore the fact they add up to more than 44 tonnes in total, that’s irrelevant. Ignore the design weights which are usually anything from a couple of hundred kilogrammes to couple of tonnes higher depending on what the unit was originally specced for, they’re not the ones you’ll get prosecuted for.

I’m guessing by the fact Axle 3 is 7500kg and Axle 2 is 11500kg that it’s a 3 axle unit with a rear lift axle and not a mid lift. Axle 2 in that case is the drive axle, not axle 3.

The drive axle max weight is 11500kg if that’s what is on the plate. It doesn’t drop just because you’re running 44 tonnes.

Punchy Dan:
Those axel weights are quite big for a standard unit ,axle numbers start at the front and work back .

I once used to have a DAF3200 in the mid 90s which had been used on heavy haulage and was running some seriously high weights axle weights for even now. It’s design weights were something like 60 tonnes train weight, damned thing was bombproof.

Good explination. But I am not registering this

Axel 1: is the front wheels of the cab. And cannot exceed 9 ton. Correct or wrong.

Axel 2 and 3: 11500 and 7500 is a rear lift axel. So these can take up to 18000. Correct or wrong

Trailer axels: are 8,000 each so 24000.

But the numbers dont add up. 8 x 3 = 24000 plus the 18 ton on the drive axel is a total weight of 42000 and 2 short of the plated 44000

The numbers don’t add up - I get 52.000 total Axle weights are the limit for that axle, so for instance if not loaded correctly you could overload an axle but still be well under the 44te gross limit of the lorry

…Or put another way, the 24.000 you put on the trailer shouldn’t just sit on the 3 trailer axles, it should be spread over all 6 axles - (3 on the unit and 3 on the trailer)

9t + 11.5t + 7.5t = 28t + trailer Axles at 8t each GTW = 52t
UK max permissible is 44t
So your weight must not exceed any of the stated axle weights you’ll probably have a carrying capacity of appx 25.5t spread along the trailer how you distribute the weight to stay legal on axle weights is your lookout
What you don’t realise is any weight forward of the centre line of the drive axle is imposed on the steer axle and that’s the one you can easily overload

ADR 1:
…Or put another way, the 24.000 you put on the trailer shouldn’t just sit on the 3 trailer axles, it should be spread over all 6 axles - (3 on the unit and 3 on the trailer)

It’s the 44.000 that’s spread across the 6 axles.Not equally obviously the steer being lighter than the rest and the drive heavier and certainly nowhere near 28t on the 3 unit axles.

Cant see why anyone would obviously think the steer axle is always lighter loaded, the Steer axle can be loaded higher than the tag axle quite easily & lets ask if you have a crane mounted on the unit so not to mislead you.

Firstly, thank you to all who replied.

This just is not registering (and believe me i am trying). So on the VTG6 plate these are the gross weights? As said the vehicle weight is a 6x2 with a rear lift axel.

The combination weight of both unit and trailer sitting on a weight bridge empty is approx 18,000 with the vehicle weighting approx 7,500

FOR MY UNDERSTANDING.

Axel 1 - is the front wheels, cab and engine. This weight cannot exceed 9,000

Axel 2 / 3 - These are drive axels. With a Combined maximum weight of 18,000 spread over the 2 axels at 11,500 and 7,500 max.

The trailer can then be loaded to a maximum of 8,000 per axel. However overall weight needs to be taken into consideration.

Is this right, or am I confusing myself with what Axel 1 is and what it can carry.

As said, i appreciate everyones in put. I am here seeking YOUR knowledge to help me better understand.

Again, really?

If this is the level of training new drivers get these days, then we are beyond help.

The maximum.um weight you can be, is 44.000 kgs.
You’re individual axles may not exceed the weights as stated on the plate.

You weigh 18.000 empty. You can load a maximum weight of 26.000 . Forget the cab and engine…

You have a 6 axle outfit, 3 axle truck, 3 axle trailer.
It has a maximum GVW of 44 tons, but because you have heavy duty axles your vehicle has much less chance of falling foul of axle weight issues than many**

Steer axle rated at 9 tons, it would be almost impossible for you to exceed this.
Stree axle weights vary very little on artics between loaded and empty, on my 6x2 mid lift, it weighs only 200/400kg different, your steer axle assuming you lift the rear tag when empty will have more difference due to fifth wheel position, but for all practical purposes you can foregt the steer axle weights because you can’t do much about it whatever you do, you have plenty of leeway be assured.

Drive axle itself is rated at 11.5 tons, in practice if you were to use an axle weigher you will find that when loaded the drive axle will gross at somewhere around the 10 ton mark.

Rear axle is a tag, will usually be liftable when unladen, typically that axle will weigh anywhere from 5 tons upwards if fully loaded.
By the way i’m impressed just how light your tractor unit is given the heavy duty axle specs, would have expected it to be over 8 tons.

The trailer axles as with almost all 3 axled trailers all axles are 8 tons max, when on air suspension unless there’s a design or suspension fault the weights imposed on those 3 axles won’t vary much more than 500kgs maximum and usually within 100kgs of each other.

You say you have a tare weight of 18tons, and the tractor weighs 7.5, that’s a heavy trailer in itself.
Assuming its been designed well, an evenly spread load would probably see your actual loaded axle weights reading something like, 7 10 6 tractor, 23tons gross and 7 7 7 trailer 21 tons gross, this would be safely and legally loaded vehicle that would probably be extremely stable on the road, i aim for 7 to 7.3 tons on my trailer axles when fully loaded for stability legality and suitable drive axle grip especially in slippery conditions.

You can theoritically shift the load forward on your outfit, up to the maximum GVW of the tractor unit, but beware there are also maximum king pin loads to consider, if i recall correctly these will be found on the trailer plate, not as i’ve ever known VOSA or whoever they are this week to be weighing the imposed weight on the kingpin of a trailer.

** in comparison, a typical 6x2 tractor specified for max weight work might well be fitted with a light mid lift axle on small wheels for obvious weight saving.
The max weights on such a tractor could be in the lines of 7t, 5.3t, 11t, as you can see this doesn’t give anywhere near as much leeway for load distribution as your heavy duty design rear tag unit has, and i have seen those mid lifts rated as low as 4.6t, very very easy to fall foul of axle weights when the total combination only just exceeds the 44t max allowable, much playing around with fifth wheel positions and load positioning to find the sweet spot, not as most drivers care about such things and from what i observe nor do a number of operators.

If you can try and use an axle weigher, both loaded and empty and make a note of the weights so you can peruse at your leisure comparing them with the plate weights.

If you can’t find an axle weigher but have the use of a flat weighbridge, ie not one up on a ramp, and the operator is friendly you can work out all your axle weights, surprisngly accurately too.
Drive on with 1 axle, weigh it, two axles, weight it, three axles, weight it, then the whole vehicle, weigh it…you don’t need to individually weight trailer axles because they will all be within 200/300kg of each other,. but you can of course weigh the trailer axles alone for confirmation.

Gross weight minus trailer axles gives you the two split weighs.
Get pen and paper and do your sums.

As Franglais (much clearer than my waffle :blush: ), between us hopefully we’ve shone some light.

TrumanShow:
Axel 1 - is the front wheels, cab and engine.

Forget that idea. It may have some limited validity in doing estimates sometimes, but it`s best ignored.

The 5th wheel loading is spread unevenly across all three of the unit axles, depending on the position of the 5th wheel on the chassis and how the suspension is set up.

The rules talk about mass but to try and keep it easier I`ll try to just say weight.

As said already the axles are counted from the front:
1: steer
2: drive
3: tag

The plates on unit and trailer show the maximum allowed weights for the total vehicle and load, and also how much can be put on each part.
In the case you are describing 3 + 3 artic
The max train weight of the vehicle is 44T (normal UK max, we aren`t discussing STGO or non-divisible)

The max weight of the unit and the max weight will (normally) be more than this.
The max weight of the unit will be more than the total of the 3 separate axles added together.

First look at the unit:
Max vehicle weight in the UK for 3 axles is 26T.
The 3 axles on your unit add up to 28T.
So, no axle can exceed the max allowed and the total can`t exceed the vehicle max. (This gives a little leeway in CoG of the load etc)
The unit plate will also give the max train weight, that is the vehicle plus any trailers and/or semi trailers.

The trailer plate will also give the max vehicle weight (Trailer plus load)
It also gives the max weight of each axle.
There is also a max weight that can imposed on the towing vehicle (through the pin and rubbing plate onto the 5th wheel)
You mustn`t exceed either the max for the vehicle nor any axle, nor pin.

By having the total weight of the axles more than the total vehicle weight there is a bit of scope to have a non uniform load.
If the axles added up exactly to the gross weight there would be no scope for anything except a perfectly balanced load.

You say the weight of unit + trailer with fuel is 18.400?
So yes you can load 25.600T to max out at 44T.
If you loaded this evenly in the trailer it should all be good.

Is that all clear?

Let`s imagine that 25T load as a single pallet size lump of super heavy lead?
If you load that above the trailer tri-axle that will put the bogie overweight although the gross is OK.
If you load that lump above the pin the unit will be overweight although the gross is OK.
So, we can see that there is a point where the load should sit to get a perfectly balanced load. By having the total of the separate axles more than the max, there is actually a range of places where the lump can be placed rather than one tiny sweet spot.

Posted at same-ish time as Juddian. I don`t disagree with anything he has said.

WOW - to the 2 people who have posted above this, i think you.

I have got it. Its finally sunk in. I thank you all for your input.

TrumanShow:
WOW - to the 2 people who have posted above this, i think you.

I have got it. Its finally sunk in. I thank you all for your input.

Sorted mate, but take some credit yourself here, most bods sat behind the wheel haven’t a bloody clue and couldn’t care any less if they tried, you’ve shown some interest in learning what its all about and what the implications are, fair play to ya :sunglasses: