Friend of mine just sent me this. It’s not your usual garbage from the broadsheets and tabloids, it’s actually from
the European Commission.
Have a read, it’s quite an eye opener as to what could be coming Britain’s way after Brexit , for those that will be driving in Europe and it will affect Owner Drivers too regarding their CPC’s, Franglais if you’re still on a UK licence have a read and any others that live here in Europe.
And we can do the same with EU registered vehicles and their drivers, the Driver CPC i don’t give a toss about, the driving licence will be valid in the eu, after Brexit, just as it was before we joined their corrupt club so i wouldn’t worry about this crap new agreements will be made to replace those we had , and knowing this traitor of a PM we have nothing will change at all because we will leave in name only
Typical bloody bureaucratic bs again, the dcpc is a valid qualification the day before we leave Europe, but not the day after we leave. Just another case of the EU spitting it’s dummy out, only surprised one of them hasn’t said “it’s my ball and you’re not playing with it”. Good bloody riddance to them, we managed before we were in the EU and we’ll manage after we get out
You will need a international permit to drive in Europe for work in trucks because all your letters and numbers on your driving licence will change back to old system or a new one just for UK, but that’s only if its a very hard exit ie no agreement
The cpc would be the same, it wont just go away, it just won’t be a eu one
Totally different to hiring a car
More scaremongering from the EU. Funnily enough Russian and Ukranian HGVs seem to have no problem driving in the EU. Its like their scaremongering over the aviation industry where they’re saying they’ll all of a sudden stop recognising UK certification. Slight problem with that is that it will mean every single aircraft in the EU that is run by European carriers fitted with Rolls Royce engines or BAe flight systems which is due for service or repair will end up being grounded indefinitely as there will be no certified spare parts or service parts. Can’t see that happening either.
Given even Americans can drive in the EU on their licenses for 6 months at a time I’m failing to see the issue.
Expect even more scaremongering as the infighting in Brussels about who is paying for the black hole we leave as we walk out with 10% of the EU budget funding gets really heated up. So far those who pay are saying they’ll not pay more and those who receive are saying they won’t take less.
Conor:
Expect even more scaremongering as the infighting in Brussels about who is paying for the black hole we leave as we walk out with 10% of the EU budget funding gets really heated up.
I’m not, and have never pretended to be a political animal, but that ^^^^^^ pretty much sums up what I perceive to be right at the heart of the matter. Every single thing else is merely political posturing or window dressing.
Have most of you actualy read this before commenting ?
This is a note stating that as the UK, with its withdrawal from the EU, when no agreement is reached before march 30th 209, becomes a third country and therefore should be treated as another third country, meaning you get the same rights in europe as for instance macedonia, albania, montenegro,…
It does state what british people will need if they want to work in europe. This is not different to what a lot of europeans had when they got letters from the governement, they have to leave the uk, or no longer have acces to help in the uk after 30.03.2019.
I read this not as scaremongering, but as a fact, everybody knew and agreed, when the UK triggerd brexit, it started the two year deadline.
I read this more as a sign that EU is prepairing for brexit ,making up guidelines for when no ageement is reached by march 2019, while Uk governement still doen’t know what kind of brexit it wants.
If you start about infighting, there is far more controverse in the UK than in the EU, the tories and labour themselves are split over hard or soft brexit.
edit; added sentence
Aah ^^^^^^^^^ Someone with a bit of sense at last ! Thank-you Bald
bald:
Have most of you actualy read this before commenting ?This is a note stating that as the UK, with its withdrawal from the EU, when no agreement is reached before march 30th 209, becomes a third country and therefore should be treated as another third country, meaning you get the same rights in europe as for instance macedonia, albania, montenegro,…
It does state what british people will need if they want to work in europe. This is not different to what a lot of europeans had when they got letters from the governement, they have to leave the uk, or no longer have acces to help in the uk after 30.03.2019.
I read this not as scaremongering, but as a fact, everybody knew and agreed, when the UK triggerd brexit, it started the two year deadline.I read this more as a sign that EU is prepairing for brexit ,making up guidelines for when no ageement is reached by march 2019, while Uk governement still doen’t know what kind of brexit it wants.
If you start about infighting, there is far more controverse in the UK than in the EU, the tories and labour themselves are split over hard or soft brexit.
edit; added sentence
FACT CHECK there is no SOFT or HARD brexit That is MSM FAKE NEWS Pro EU propaganda there is only ONE
brexit and that means EXIT the EU lock stock and both bloody barrels, Anything short of that isnt brexit and this is what 17.4million people voted for in June 2016 If we had a government who respected the democratic will of the people we would of already left the EU
the maoster:
Conor:
Expect even more scaremongering as the infighting in Brussels about who is paying for the black hole we leave as we walk out with 10% of the EU budget funding gets really heated up.I’m not, and have never pretended to be a political animal, but that ^^^^^^ pretty much sums up what I perceive to be right at the heart of the matter. Every single thing else is merely political posturing or window dressing.
Without talking of party politics, or getting nationalistic, or shouty about anything, I’d think you’ve heard of the term from Game Theory: zero sum and non-zero sum games?
In zero sum games there is limited total of “points”. Competitors divide that limited resource between them. If I gain it’s your loss.
In non zero sum games the “points” or resources are not limited. My gains aren’t only at your loss. By using different strategies it’s possible for both players to gain.
Economics is a non zero sum game. International trade can, should and does increase wealth for all trading countries. It doesn’t always do it equally or “fairly”, it’s true.
What worries me most about Brexit is in order to gain a larger slice of a pie, we’re passing up a slice of a much larger slice of pie. By moaning about paying out dues we’re passing up on overall gains.
Want to pay more tax? No?
OK, refuse future pay rises and you’ll pay no extra tax.
Get out of EU and pay them nowt? Just like quitting a well paid job because you don’t want to pay tax.
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Looking at it from the EU27 side they must wonder what do the Brits want? It seems the Brits themselves don’t actually seem to know! What a mess!
I read that load of bull as well…yes it does apply to the uk as a third country…unless an agreement is in place…well seeing as the negotiations are still on going, and we have another 12 months to complete the transition, i dont see a problem…what i do see is every truck from europe, will also be affected, as what goes up…comes down, so we will not accept their CPC, unless taken in the third country ie the UK. Its also going to affect buses running to places like the Eurolines buses run to, and all under the EU qualifications, we can stop those too…sadly it would only affect the Uk passengers, but then we have to think of the Aircraft industry,m as we will need permission to take off and land in europe the way i se it…what about ships ?..the list goes on and on, and to think they said : We are not going to punish the UK…it does look that way doesnt it, but i can see us working for an agreement, that benefits all…but its another excuse to squeeze more money out of us i suppose, as the other members are not happy with filling the financial gap left by the uk, plus the EU wants to show other countries they cannot just upsticks, and leave without penalties.But many of these countries are not listening to the EU over some issues ( Immigrants ) they have said we are not taking them, Hungary,Czech, Slovakia, Poland, Italy for example, and no action has been taken so far !! Italy is just starting an election campaign, where the far right has a strong lead, and its people are sick and tired of all the African Immigrants landing ion their shores, although most of them are refused asylum, and many have taken over unused buildings, and wont let the authorities or film crews anywhere near without a police ■■■■■■…so fun and games lie ahead…especially when Italy starts deporting them back to Africa.
As Pierrot and Bald are saying that doc is setting out the EU position. It’s not scaremongering or “project fear”.
Mix’n’match with UK driving licences, DCPCs, different reg vehicles is coming to an end, failing further agreements.
As another aside UK hauliers with BG reg trucks?
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tommy t:
FACT CHECK there is no SOFT or HARD brexit That is MSM FAKE NEWS Pro EU propaganda there is only ONE
brexit and that means EXIT the EU lock stock and both bloody barrels, Anything short of that isnt brexit and this is what 17.4million people voted for in June 2016 If we had a government who respected the democratic will of the people we would of already left the EU
With 16.1 million votes not agreeing with you and a less then then 75 % turnout,
bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
there is more then one brexit possible.
I agree there is no going back. The vote is there and should be honoured. The question is how.
The problem brexit has, is that the leave campaign never thought they would win and they were not ready when they did win.
Just storming out, as you suggest, is a solution, but british politicians on both sides of the spectrum, are starting to realise that it is just slightly more complicated.
Leaving the EU, has set a row of dominos falling, …what with britons in europe, …what with europeans in britain,… what about a hard or soft border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, what with the good friday agreements,…
You mention one solution for a problem, and 3 new problems arise.
In case of brexit there is no simple solution, it will need a compromise, first between the british themselves( hard or soft, left and right),
and once that is agreed, you can start negotiating with the EU.
Oh and just in case, there is no agreement and a hard brexit does happen in 2019, there are 66 million britons and 742 million people in the EU. Who will be most affected ?
Having just read it, it certainly isn’t bs, it’s logical even obvious and says exactly what I would expect to be happening.
If your a driving for a UK company in a UK vehicle no change, our right to drive temporarily in an EU member is covered by the Geneva convention, nothing to do with the EU, likewise their ability to drive here. If a Brit wishes to work for an EU employer in an EU vehicle let’s say Dutch for example we will have to take a dcpc in NL, just as an EU citizen will have to take a UK dcpc if they wish to work here. Whether driving licences are accepted for longterm residency and employment is a matter for each state, again temporary visits are covered by the Geneva convention.
If after having tipped in France we want to reload France for Germany we would need an the modern equivalent of a multi-trip book, a German tipping here and finding a load for Italy likewise will need a book. No multi-trip book you can only reload to your country of origin. Cabotage will cease to be possible both by UK hauliers in the EU and in the UK by EU hauliers.
As I have thought all along, Brexit may well be the revival of the UK international transport industry. Get our house in order with permits and there is no change, but is the Romanian who comes here a couple of times a year going to bother getting a book, I think not. Likewise is the Pole who some believe is depressing wages here still going to come if he has to take a dcpc in English at his own expense before he can start work?
acd1202:
Having just read it, it certainly isn’t bs, it’s logical even obvious and says exactly what I would expect to be happening.If your a driving for a UK company in a UK vehicle no change, our right to drive temporarily in an EU member is covered by the Geneva convention, nothing to do with the EU, likewise their ability to drive here. If a Brit wishes to work for an EU employer in an EU vehicle let’s say Dutch for example we will have to take a dcpc in NL, just as an EU citizen will have to take a UK dcpc if they wish to work here. Whether driving licences are accepted for longterm residency and employment is a matter for each state, again temporary visits are covered by the Geneva convention.
If after having tipped in France we want to reload France for Germany we would need an the modern equivalent of a multi-trip book, a German tipping here and finding a load for Italy likewise will need a book. No multi-trip book you can only reload to your country of origin. Cabotage will cease to be possible both by UK hauliers in the EU and in the UK by EU hauliers.
As I have thought all along, Brexit may well be the revival of the UK international transport industry. Get our house in order with permits and there is no change, but is the Romanian who comes here a couple of times a year going to bother getting a book, I think not. Likewise is the Pole who some believe is depressing wages here still going to come if he has to take a dcpc in English at his own expense before he can start work?
I think you may be wrong on the way you’re looking at permits. A German or French haulier are effectively both from the same (customs) country: the European Union. When we’re out tipping Germany then reloading Germany for France that could be cabotage couldn’t it? We’d be a foreign haulier working INSIDE a single customs union.
I don’t know, and since there’s no agreement yet no one knows, but its possible.
A German loading in the UK would have no problem tipping France as it’s within his own trade block. And how could we refuse to load him? Unless we want tobe banned from Germany and hence all of the EU?
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acd1202:
Having just read it, it certainly isn’t bs, it’s logical even obvious and says exactly what I would expect to be happening.If your a driving for a UK company in a UK vehicle no change, our right to drive temporarily in an EU member is covered by the Geneva convention, nothing to do with the EU, likewise their ability to drive here. If a Brit wishes to work for an EU employer in an EU vehicle let’s say Dutch for example we will have to take a dcpc in NL, just as an EU citizen will have to take a UK dcpc if they wish to work here. Whether driving licences are accepted for longterm residency and employment is a matter for each state, again temporary visits are covered by the Geneva convention.
If after having tipped in France we want to reload France for Germany we would need an the modern equivalent of a multi-trip book, a German tipping here and finding a load for Italy likewise will need a book. No multi-trip book you can only reload to your country of origin. Cabotage will cease to be possible both by UK hauliers in the EU and in the UK by EU hauliers.
As I have thought all along, Brexit may well be the revival of the UK international transport industry. Get our house in order with permits and there is no change, but is the Romanian who comes here a couple of times a year going to bother getting a book, I think not. Likewise is the Pole who some believe is depressing wages here still going to come if he has to take a dcpc in English at his own expense before he can start work?
This is supposed to be happening when no agreement is reached or a very hard brexit becomes reality.
You just have to realise there will be only UK hauliers and EU hauliers. As Franglais mentioned, if a uk haulier wants to do a transport from britain to let 's say Germany, he will need a German permit and a Belgian or French transit permit, if he wants to do cabotage in europe, he will need the book, a EU haulier will need a UK permit only, as he goes from the EU bloc to the UK and back to the EU and can load for any country in the EU he wants.
In this scenario I think it will become even harder for British hauliers as it already is now.
short walk:
Looking at it from the EU27 side they must wonder what do the Brits want? It seems the Brits themselves don’t actually seem to know! What a mess!
IMHO is this where at the moment lies the problem. There is to big a difference of opinion between the tories themselves, and even between labour as Corbyn now is looking for a soft Brexit.
The British decided to leave the EU, it is up to the brits to make clear how they want to continue with the EU.(and one way or another, you can not avoid working with the EU).
As I mentioned earlier, your politicians organised a referendum, making it a simple choice: yes or no, but is far more complicated than just in or out, and you have a press who are digging the trenches, and sod the consequences.
Sombody told once: every country gets the politicians it deserves, I do not know what you have done to get who you got now. 
Franglais:
acd1202:
Having just read it, it certainly isn’t bs, it’s logical even obvious and says exactly what I would expect to be happening.If your a driving for a UK company in a UK vehicle no change, our right to drive temporarily in an EU member is covered by the Geneva convention, nothing to do with the EU, likewise their ability to drive here. If a Brit wishes to work for an EU employer in an EU vehicle let’s say Dutch for example we will have to take a dcpc in NL, just as an EU citizen will have to take a UK dcpc if they wish to work here. Whether driving licences are accepted for longterm residency and employment is a matter for each state, again temporary visits are covered by the Geneva convention.
If after having tipped in France we want to reload France for Germany we would need an the modern equivalent of a multi-trip book, a German tipping here and finding a load for Italy likewise will need a book. No multi-trip book you can only reload to your country of origin. Cabotage will cease to be possible both by UK hauliers in the EU and in the UK by EU hauliers.
As I have thought all along, Brexit may well be the revival of the UK international transport industry. Get our house in order with permits and there is no change, but is the Romanian who comes here a couple of times a year going to bother getting a book, I think not. Likewise is the Pole who some believe is depressing wages here still going to come if he has to take a dcpc in English at his own expense before he can start work?
I think you may be wrong on the way you’re looking at permits. A German or French haulier are effectively both from the same (customs) country: the European Union. When we’re out tipping Germany then reloading Germany for France that could be cabotage couldn’t it? We’d be a foreign haulier working INSIDE a single customs union.
I don’t know, and since there’s no agreement yet no one knows, but its possible.
A German loading in the UK would have no problem tipping France as it’s within his own trade block. And how could we refuse to load him? Unless we want tobe banned from Germany and hence all of the EU?Read the EU document linked by the OP it is quite clear. Loading between EU members, is not, has not and will not be cabotage. Cabotage is within one national boundary, the EU is not, yet, a national boundary. Brexit is irrelevant to what a French haulier does within the 27, however a German haulier would not be able to load to France from the UK without a permit since this is involves third country.
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bald:
acd1202:
Having just read it, it certainly isn’t bs, it’s logical even obvious and says exactly what I would expect to be happening.If your a driving for a UK company in a UK vehicle no change, our right to drive temporarily in an EU member is covered by the Geneva convention, nothing to do with the EU, likewise their ability to drive here. If a Brit wishes to work for an EU employer in an EU vehicle let’s say Dutch for example we will have to take a dcpc in NL, just as an EU citizen will have to take a UK dcpc if they wish to work here. Whether driving licences are accepted for longterm residency and employment is a matter for each state, again temporary visits are covered by the Geneva convention.
If after having tipped in France we want to reload France for Germany we would need an the modern equivalent of a multi-trip book, a German tipping here and finding a load for Italy likewise will need a book. No multi-trip book you can only reload to your country of origin. Cabotage will cease to be possible both by UK hauliers in the EU and in the UK by EU hauliers.
As I have thought all along, Brexit may well be the revival of the UK international transport industry. Get our house in order with permits and there is no change, but is the Romanian who comes here a couple of times a year going to bother getting a book, I think not. Likewise is the Pole who some believe is depressing wages here still going to come if he has to take a dcpc in English at his own expense before he can start work?
This is supposed to be happening when no agreement is reached or a very hard brexit becomes reality.
You just have to realise there will be only UK hauliers and EU hauliers. As Franglais mentioned, if a uk haulier wants to do a transport from britain to let 's say Germany, he will need a German permit and a Belgian or French transit permit, if he wants to do cabotage in europe, he will need the book, a EU haulier will need a UK permit only, as he goes from the EU bloc to the UK and back to the EU and can load for any country in the EU he wants.
In this scenario I think it will become even harder for British hauliers as it already is now.
short walk:
Looking at it from the EU27 side they must wonder what do the Brits want? It seems the Brits themselves don’t actually seem to know! What a mess!IMHO is this where at the moment lies the problem. There is to big a difference of opinion between the tories themselves, and even between labour as Corbyn now is looking for a soft Brexit.
The British decided to leave the EU, it is up to the brits to make clear how they want to continue with the EU.(and one way or another, you can not avoid working with the EU).As I mentioned earlier, your politicians organised a referendum, making it a simple choice: yes or no, but is far more complicated than just in or out, and you have a press who are digging the trenches, and sod the consequences.
Sombody told once: every country gets the politicians it deserves, I do not know what you have done to get who you got now.
There is absolutely no mention of any permits in the EU paper other than the book, again you are confusing the EU with a country, it isn’t, and consequently loading between other states is not and never has been cabotage. The document is quite clear that cabotage will not be allowed either within the UK by EU hauliers or within any single EU state by UK hauliers, long since this was covered by the old Red book, there is no mention of its reintroduction. The permit is required for traffic to a third country for a trip involving the UK.
I do wish people would read thngs bofore passing comment.
Of course as you correctly say this paper is considering a “cliff edge” Brexit and negotiation may leave something looking totally different.
Bottom of page3:—
> That system does not permit
> cabotage operations, i.e. operations by foreign carriers within a single State. This
> means, in particular, that United Kingdom hauliers will no longer be able to
> perform cabotage operations within any of the EU-27 Member States.