Not sure if this has been covered before, but here we go :-
Category C1+E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg, but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.
The combined weight of both can’t exceed 12,000kg. EDIT: Obviously like you said 107 - not more than 8,250 kilograms.
on a pre 1997 license total weight is 8250kg,
so if the truck is plated at 7.5t, but is only weighing 6t loaded, could it tow a trailer weighing 2t ?
bardon.flyer:
on a pre 1997 license total weight is 8250kg,so if the truck is plated at 7.5t, but is only weighing 6t loaded, could it tow a trailer weighing 2t ?
I think the .75 t is meant as a max towing limit on a 7.5 tonner with a C1 obtained with a pre 1997 car licence and you can’t mix and match.Whereas before 1997,if I’ve remembered it right,I think there were no limits on trailer weights so long as the gross combination weight of the whole outfit didn’t exceed 7.5 t.
But in general the idea of towing a heavy trailer with a downplated or at least under loaded 7.5 tonner for example makes more sense than trying to match trailer weights to unsuitable towing vehicles.Which ironically the new regs seem to have made more likely now.Which is noticeable among the traveller lot who were usually associated with pulling their bleedin great big caravans with 7.5 tonners but now more likely to be using under specced 4x4’s etc for the job .
Pre 1997 C1E (107) legal examples with vehicle then trailer plated GVW/MAM weights (not actual weights as plated weights are used for licencing)
7500 + 750 = 8250
7000 + 1250 = 8250
6500 + 1750 = 8250
6000 + 2250 = 8250
5000 + 3250 = 8250
etc
ROG:
Pre 1997 C1E (107) legal examples with vehicle then trailer plated GVW/MAM weights (not actual weights as plated weights are used for licencing)7500 + 750 = 8250
7000 + 1250 = 8250
6500 + 1750 = 8250
6000 + 2250 = 8250
5000 + 3250 = 8250
etc
In which case anyone with a pre 1997 licence has possibly actually gained from the change.IE 8.25t Gross Combination Weight in any order on a car licence ?.Which makes the case for a down plated 7.5 tonner,v silly marginal van or 4x4,as a towing vehicle for heavy trailers,a no brainer. 
While anyone with a test pass after 1997 is stuffed in that regard.Which probably explains the traveller issue of not using 7.5 tonners so much these days to pull big caravans ?.
bardon.flyer:
on a pre 1997 license total weight is 8250kg,so if the truck is plated at 7.5t, but is only weighing 6t loaded, could it tow a trailer weighing 2t ?
No. It’s based on the allowed weight, not the actual weight. So if you can put 7.5t on, you’re only allowed to pull a 750kg trailer. But say a XLWB hi-roof all the ■■■■■■■■ Iveco Daily, at 6.5t, you could use it to pull a 1750kg trailer.
Carryfast:
In which case anyone with a pre 1997 licence has possibly actually gained from the change.IE 8.25t Gross Combination Weight in any order on a car licence
Not really? You can have a car with a heavier trailer than the car, or a truck with a heavier trailer, but not a 7.5. So I could pull a 3t trailer with a 2t car (like a Landy or etc.) But I couldn’t pull a 6t trailer with a 5t van. Well I could because I’ve got Cat CE, BUT someone with C1E + Res 107, could not.
htmldude:
Carryfast:
In which case anyone with a pre 1997 licence has possibly actually gained from the change.IE 8.25t Gross Combination Weight in any order on a car licenceNot really? You can have a car with a heavier trailer than the car, or a truck with a heavier trailer, but not a 7.5. So I could pull a 3t trailer with a 2t car (like a Landy or etc.) But I couldn’t pull a 6t trailer with a 5t van. Well I could because I’ve got Cat CE, BUT someone with C1E + Res 107, could not.
The idea of pulling any close coupled type trailer that’s heavier than the towing vehicle is an accident waiting to happen.While by ROG’s figures you could pull a 3.5t trailer with a 4.5t down plated 7.5 tonner on a pre 1997 car licence.
Some 4x4s with a GVW of 2750 are designed to tow a 3500 trailer perfectly safely
Any trailer over 3500 MAM must have more than over-run brakes - such as air brakes
Most vehicles in the B category have a max towing capacity imposed by the manufacturers and exceeding that can get the driver prosecuted under C&U reg 100 as well as having the insurance voided
LGVs do not have a max towing capacity imposed so its legally , but not safely, possible to have the drag weighing more than the mover
If you could down plate a 7.5 to 4.5 then I reckon you could put very little in the 7.5 as many weigh about 4.0 empty !
ROG:
Some 4x4s with a GVW of 2750 are designed to tow a 3500 trailer perfectly safelyAny trailer over 3500 MAM must have more than over-run brakes - such as air brakes
Most vehicles in the B category have a max towing capacity imposed by the manufacturers and exceeding that can get the driver prosecuted under C&U reg 100 as well as having the insurance voided
LGVs do not have a max towing capacity imposed so its legally , but not safely, possible to have the drag weighing more than the mover
If you could down plate a 7.5 to 4.5 then I reckon you could put very little in the 7.5 as many weigh about 4.0 empty !
I think the idea of 2.75t towing 3.5t fits the same description of possibly legal but certainly not safe.The usual rule for matching a car with a caravan for example being ideally not more than 85% of the towing vehicle’s weight and certainly not more than 100%.Although there’s obviously a difference between close coupled ( combination weight ) v A frame ( Train Weight ) in that regard with A frame outfits being effectively immune from the tail wagging the dog scenario.Unlike close coupled type outfits whether it’s a car and caravan or wagon and drag.Which is why it’s no problem to pull a 40t + trailer with a 25 tonne rigid as an A frame outfit but you wouldn’t want to do it with the close coupled configuration.
On that note trucks are plated with a max towing weight in the form of GCW/GTW.But the whole towing regulation thing is a mess of confusing rules which don’t recognise the difference between GCW v GTW.With the C1 + E rules being even more counterproductive in making it more likely that someone will put a badly weight mismatched outfit on the road to avoid the ridiculous licencing restrictions regards post 1997 licences.
While the idea of down plating a 7.5 tonner was meant in the sense of using it primarily as a towing vehicle,rather than the less than 3t 4x4 car type example.Although I think 4.5t would allow for around 1t of payload on a 7.5 tonner while keeping the outfit to a trailer weight of not more than 100% of the towing vehicle’s weight even when empty,in most cases assuming a 3.5t max trailer weight. ?. Which as I said seemed to rightly have been the towing vehicle of choice among the traveller lot for example before the ridiculous licence changes.
Caravans are a separate issue due to their design
some 4x4s are designed to tow 3500 not at 2700 GVW but at their kerb weight of 2200 = PERFECTLY SAFELY - if it was not safe then manufacturers would be getting sued a lot !!
ROG:
Caravans are a separate issue due to their designsome 4x4s are designed to tow 3500 not at 2700 GVW but at their kerb weight of 2200 = PERFECTLY SAFELY - if it was not safe then manufacturers would be getting sued a lot !!
The law won’t nick the manufacturer if/when the idea of towing a 3.5 t trailer with a 2.5t 4 x 4 or whatever all goes pear shaped they’ll just blame the driver.While from the point of view of the tail wagging the dog scenario there’s no real difference whether it’s a car and caravan outfit or a close coupled wagon and drag.Which probably explains why you don’t often,if ever,see 2 + 3 close coupled wagon and drag outfits as opposed to A Frame type.On that note maybe everyone including the manufacturers are confusing GCW with GTW in that regard.
ssli.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY1WDEwM … s/$_86.JPG
While as I said the choice between around 2.5 t 4 x 4 etc v 4.5 t 7.5 tonner to pull a heavy caravan/close coupled trailer safely is a no brainer.
Carryfast:
ROG:
Caravans are a separate issue due to their designsome 4x4s are designed to tow 3500 not at 2700 GVW but at their kerb weight of 2200 = PERFECTLY SAFELY - if it was not safe then manufacturers would be getting sued a lot !!
The law won’t nick the manufacturer if/when the idea of towing a 3.5 t trailer with a 2.5t 4 x 4 or whatever all goes pear shaped they’ll just blame the driver.While from the point of view of the tail wagging the dog scenario there’s no real difference whether it’s a car and caravan outfit or a close coupled wagon and drag.Which probably explains why you don’t often,if ever,see 2 + 3 close coupled wagon and drag outfits as opposed to A Frame type.On that note maybe everyone including the manufacturers are confusing GCW with GTW in that regard.
ssli.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY1WDEwM … s/$_86.JPG
While as I said the choice between around 2.5 t 4 x 4 etc v 4.5 t 7.5 tonner to pull a heavy caravan/close coupled trailer safely is a no brainer.
If this was unsafe then it would be headlines in the driving world and would certainly be sorted in court cases
ROG:
Carryfast:
ROG:
Caravans are a separate issue due to their designsome 4x4s are designed to tow 3500 not at 2700 GVW but at their kerb weight of 2200 = PERFECTLY SAFELY - if it was not safe then manufacturers would be getting sued a lot !!
The law won’t nick the manufacturer if/when the idea of towing a 3.5 t trailer with a 2.5t 4 x 4 or whatever all goes pear shaped they’ll just blame the driver.While from the point of view of the tail wagging the dog scenario there’s no real difference whether it’s a car and caravan outfit or a close coupled wagon and drag.Which probably explains why you don’t often,if ever,see 2 + 3 close coupled wagon and drag outfits as opposed to A Frame type.On that note maybe everyone including the manufacturers are confusing GCW with GTW in that regard.
ssli.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY1WDEwM … s/$_86.JPG
While as I said the choice between around 2.5 t 4 x 4 etc v 4.5 t 7.5 tonner to pull a heavy caravan/close coupled trailer safely is a no brainer.
If this was unsafe then it would be headlines in the driving world and would certainly be sorted in court cases
As I said.Maybe ‘the driving world’ can explain why no one with any sense would pull a caravan that was heavier than the car or spec a 2 + 3 close coupled wagon and drag outfit as opposed to a 2 + 3 A frame. 