ADR Horror Stories

dieseldave:

gsm31:
Dieseldave should be able to clear up any doubt about the story.

Hi gsm31, Only too happy to help clear this one up mate.

Here is a little extract copied and pasted directly from the Consortium ADR course:

The incident happened on a still foggy morning on the M6 North bound near to the junction with the M62. A tanker (36T) carrying Oleum (concentrated Sulphuric Acid) was in collision with a lorry carrying scaffolding. A scaffolding pole caused a gash in the tankers shell and a large quantity of Oleum leaked out onto the carriageway.

…the fumes from the Oleum were extremely dangerous and would render anyone inhaling them unconscious almost immediately. The Nurse however obviously thought the driver wanted help and waded into the Oleum (which looks like clear water) she then became unconscious as she inhaled the fumes and fell into the Oleum which then attacked her body as the photograph shows.

As well as the Consortium’s ADR course, there are other approved ADR courses such as: Chemfreight, LRT and Friendberry.

ADR providers can only use the ADR course that they have bought, otherwise they must write their own and submit it for approval. The reason that not all of you will get to see the photo of what was left of the nurse is that the photo isn’t published on the internet, and IIRC was only included in the Consortium course by permission.

The photo is an old B&W one and is therefore quite grainy, but it is clear that the oleum claimed the nurse’s arms and legs. IMHO, further description is far too gory for a family show like this and would serve no useful purpose. I’ll also say that quite a lot more than “just the nurse’s badge” was found. The one good thing that came from this incident was that it focused the government’s minds and caused the system for marking UK tankers with 3 large hazard warning panels to be devised.

Trivia fact: Showing a plain orange coloured plate on the front of a UK tanker wasn’t required until the mid 90s.

The M6 Oleum accident accident was in November 1972 just north of what is now the M58 junction, in 1972 it was the Orrell Turning, the tanker was on route from St Helens to Whitehaven loaded with 30% Oleum, the tanker struck the corner of a Skeleton Container Trailer and the tank was punctured allowing the load to escape, this accident did lead to the start of the Hazchem and Tremcard that we know today, the picture on the website link below was on the M5 when the trailer became detached from the tractor but in this accident not one drop of Oleum was spilt.

http://the-ncec.com/assets/NewsAndArticles/AEA-Ox-Uni-Careers-Talk-01-11-10.pdf

I worked for the Chemical Company who’s vehicle was in the accident in 1972.

I am not doubting Frankie as he sent me a message about this, but I have also seen the photo and the history behind the owner of the original photo.

Could there have been two incidents with spilled acid on the M6 at both at Orrel and Birchwood.

I remember the story about Scaffolding tubes too.

It was a long time ago and made the national press of which there must be records.

But there are certainly two dates mentioned. October 1969 and November 1972

Am I the only one going to ask for a picture of the nurse? PM it to me if you must.

Sam Millar:
Am I the only one going to ask for a picture of the nurse? PM it to me if you must.

it is not in the public domain Sam so if you get one you shouldn’t share it.

It is not a nice picture and very grainy

dieseldave:

matizerSCANIAR480:
so does anybody have the actual story of what happened with this nurse then?

The short version of the story is that a tanker carrying oleum (see below) was in collision with a scaffold truck.
As a result of the collision, the tanker jack-knifed and a scaffold pole caused a gash in the tanker allowing oleum to leak onto the carriageway.

An off-duty nurse (in a Morris 1,000) stopped to render assistance and was overcome by the fumes from the oleum, (which will render a person unconscious very quickly) she then fell forwards into the oleum and as a result, she died.

“Oleum” is a trade word for:

UN 1831 SULPHURIC ACID, FUMING, 8 (6.1), PGI

ADR says that oleum is highly corrosive AND toxic, AND reactive to water.
It really isn’t very nice stuff at all.

That is the story, word for word, I was told on my most recent ADR Course in Heysham.

A Traffic Cop on the course told the class his version just before the lesson started. His version included an heroic traffic cop who tried to rescue the nurse and that the whole incident was filmed by the camera fitted to the patrol car.

The young rozzer was blushing so much when he heard the date of the incident. I didn’t really feel the need to ask him if Police Cars had video cameras in the Seventies?

W

AlexWignall:

dieseldave:

matizerSCANIAR480:
so does anybody have the actual story of what happened with this nurse then?

The short version of the story is that a tanker carrying oleum (see below) was in collision with a scaffold truck.
As a result of the collision, the tanker jack-knifed and a scaffold pole caused a gash in the tanker allowing oleum to leak onto the carriageway.

An off-duty nurse (in a Morris 1,000) stopped to render assistance and was overcome by the fumes from the oleum, (which will render a person unconscious very quickly) she then fell forwards into the oleum and as a result, she died.

“Oleum” is a trade word for:

UN 1831 SULPHURIC ACID, FUMING, 8 (6.1), PGI

ADR says that oleum is highly corrosive AND toxic, AND reactive to water.
It really isn’t very nice stuff at all.

That is the story, word for word, I was told on my most recent ADR Course in Heysham.

A Traffic Cop on the course told the class his version just before the lesson started. His version included an heroic traffic cop who tried to rescue the nurse and that the whole incident was filmed by the camera fitted to the patrol car.

The young rozzer was blushing so much when he heard the date of the incident. I didn’t really feel the need to ask him if Police Cars had video cameras in the Seventies.

W

Had the nurse updated her car in this new spillage?

Wheel Nut:

Sam Millar:
Am I the only one going to ask for a picture of the nurse? PM it to me if you must.

it is not in the public domain Sam so if you get one you shouldn’t share it.

It is not a nice picture and very grainy

Ah I see buddy thanks.

I enjoyed his embarassment so much I can’t remember Wheel Nut.

I’ve got an ADR (sort of) horror story of my own. I’d forgotten it till now.

I tipped a very thin glucose at Shell Pernis. They provide Stikstoff (nitrogen I think) to pressure the tanker. I vented it and secured the manlids in the open position.

I went to clean at Den Hartoghs (spelling?) up the road. On the way I got a message to replace the Spraybollen. So after I booked in I clambered into the tank to put them in.

I got the first two in and collapsed. Luckily under an open Manlid. As the warm tank cooled it drew in fresh air that kept me alive. After some time I came to, climbed out of the tank and rang work from the cab phone (I didn’t have the energy to stagger to the office).

The ambulance man woke me up in the cab and I got a night in ICU in Rotterdam General.

W

AlexWignall:
I enjoyed his embarassment so much I can’t remember Wheel Nut.

I’ve got an ADR (sort of) horror story of my own. I’d forgotten it till now.

I tipped a very thin glucose at Shell Pernis. They provide Stikstoff (nitrogen I think) to pressure the tanker. I vented it and secured the manlids in the open position.

I went to clean at Den Hartoghs (spelling?) up the road. On the way I got a message to replace the Spraybollen. So after I booked in I clambered into the tank to put them in.

I got the first two in and collapsed. Luckily under an open Manlid. As the warm tank cooled it drew in fresh air that kept me alive. After some time I came to, climbed out of the tank and rang work from the cab phone (I didn’t have the energy to stagger to the office).

The ambulance man woke me up in the cab and I got a night in ICU in Rotterdam General.

W

You are very lucky to be able to write this story, or any other for that matter.

That is presumably what happened to Bob Hirst at Norman Lewis, he went missing over the weekend and was found on Monday morning inside his trailer. Dead of course. You may remember it happening in Huls at Marl

Stickstoffe, Stikstof or Azote

Wheel Nut:

AlexWignall:
I enjoyed his embarassment so much I can’t remember Wheel Nut.

I’ve got an ADR (sort of) horror story of my own. I’d forgotten it till now.

I tipped a very thin glucose at Shell Pernis. They provide Stikstoff (nitrogen I think) to pressure the tanker. I vented it and secured the manlids in the open position.

I went to clean at Den Hartoghs (spelling?) up the road. On the way I got a message to replace the Spraybollen. So after I booked in I clambered into the tank to put them in.

I got the first two in and collapsed. Luckily under an open Manlid. As the warm tank cooled it drew in fresh air that kept me alive. After some time I came to, climbed out of the tank and rang work from the cab phone (I didn’t have the energy to stagger to the office).

The ambulance man woke me up in the cab and I got a night in ICU in Rotterdam General.

W

You are very lucky to be able to write this story, or any other for that matter.

That is presumably what happened to Bob Hirst at Norman Lewis, he went missing over the weekend and was found on Monday morning inside his trailer. Dead of course. You may remember it happening in Huls at Marl

Stickstoffe, Stikstof or Azote

I should of known better too. I did a lot of work in confined spaces in the RN, I even did it in my Killicks Fleetboard.

I think I remember one of the brits who joined H&S much later mentioned your colleague.

I never talked about my incident much because it never really phased me (and there was no one to tell either). I must of done hundreds of self cleans after that.

I did tend to leave the Spraybollen in the Dekselkasten more because they were pretty useless rather than for any other reason.

W

I recall two incidents from the 70s the first one was a Seal Sands where a tanker pulled onto the weigh-bridge after loading and noticed that the barrel was leaking and it was waste product en-route to Pitsea waste liquid had eaten through a stainless steel barrel and they were very lucky that it had started while still on site so they were able to go and discharge the load. The reason I know about this is because I went and did a few loads of the stuff as I had a general purpose stainless steel vacuum tank which was built with a far thicker steel and was over 1 ton heavier than most G P tanks. I know the tanker firm and the chemical company and I am sure that one or two members on here know about this incident as the safety went off the clock for a short time as it was not too long after the hazchem course’s had started as I had done mine at ICI Billingham I had no problem.

The second incident was far more serious as it involved " Acrylonitrile " the tanker driver doing this to Hythe from Immingham had tipped and put his safety suit in his cab and it being a cold wet day he had his heater on and windows closed and he never made it to the main road A35 ? is it as the fumes had knocked out again I know the company as our firm took over the contract and we had to have the special nitrile suits which were double skinned and B A had to be worn while loading and discharging which was carried out by the customers staff but you had to be there to open and close the tanker valves but the driver must have had a splash on his suit and throwing it into the passenger side he could not have realized either how dangerous it was or that he had a splash on his protective clothing. When our firm took over we had to attend a special course and were supplied with a serum which could only be administered by a DOCTOR but we did have a lockable box fitted to carry our safety suit in we did this work for about 4 years and then Calor took over the contract.

ive been asked to work a 6th day does that count as a horor story?..

wirralpete:
ive been asked to work a 6th day does that count as a horor story?..

Pete any days work is a horror story for me nowadays even the word brings me out in a cold sweat.
cheers Johnnie

Sam Millar:
Am I the only one going to ask for a picture of the nurse? PM it to me if you must.

Sam,

AFAIK, the only way that you’ll get to see that picture is if you attend an ADR course offered by a training company that is a member of the Consortium.

The picure is copyright and is only shown on a Consortium ADR course by permission of the nurse’s family. I have the Consortium’s PowerPoint presentation for when I teach ADR for any Consortium member, and that’s the only time the picutre can be shown because of the copyright .

I know the guy who writes the Consortium’s ADR course, he also runs the Consortium and he’s a serving police officer, so I wouldn’t fancy the consequences of breaching their rules.

As for the other posters with variations on the nurse story, I wouldn’t dispute any of them.
However, the info I posted in my earlier post was the info on the slides contained in the Consortium’s ADR course. This specifically mentions the scaffold pole. I took it as read that the course writer had done his homework, especially as I know that he has access to police records.

Wheel Nut:
I am not doubting Frankie as he sent me a message about this, but I have also seen the photo and the history behind the owner of the original photo.

Could there have been two incidents with spilled acid on the M6 at both at Orrel and Birchwood.

I remember the story about Scaffolding tubes too.

It was a long time ago and made the national press of which there must be records.

But there are certainly two dates mentioned. October 1969 and November 1972

No there were not two accidents involving oleum, there was an accident on the M6 southbound carriageway near what is now the M62 junction where a vehicle loaded with reels of paper ran into the back of a tanker carrying HCL Acid which pushed the tanker in to the rear of a scaffolding truck, in this accident the rolls of paper broke loose and rolled over the top of the tanker and crushed the cab of the tanker, the driver of the tanker escaped with slight injuries a photograph of this incident was often used in relation to the oleum accident as it belonged to the same company, as I was employed by this company for 32 years I do know what I am on about, anything you hear on ADR courses are opinions what I write is fact, at this very time I am in discussion with people from Harwell and the truth will be told finally.

WATCH THIS SPACE.

Rum stuff that Hydraulic Acid

Just to let you know that the 40th anniversary of the oleum accident has just passed and that a small memorial service has been privately held by a small group of people who were involved in the clean up operation.

I used to actually work with corrisives when I got my first job out of school as a lab technician.

Oleum/Tech Conc. Sulphuric acid was mostly used as a dehydrating agent, as with no actual water in it, it is barely acidic until it comes into contact with moisture, at which point it heats up, drains water out of the contact (eg. flesh) and then proceeds to carbonize it. It’s action on metals is fairly passive, as it is acid in solution that does all the corroding there, and the oily concentrate has pretty much no acid solution in it. Dry metal doesn’t have any moisture to draw off, so you could fill a metal container with Oleum and it would take weeks to leech through.

H2SO4
Persons getting “burned” by oleum are actually scalded by boiling near-concentrated acid in ultra-strong solution as the oleum combines with water in an exothermic reaction. Water boils at 100c but Oleum boils at more than 3 times this, so if you add water to oleum, the water will pretty much boil on contact from the now 300c+ oleum, steaming it out over the victim. Oleum on the skin in the neat state doesn’t actually do anything at first (assuming standard moisture of skin) but will gradually itch, and then burning after about a minute of contact. This is most likely to occur from splash drops, followed by walking away from the scene, because you didn’t realise you’d been splashed. If on the top of clothes, a few minutes are also needed to burn through, although this will often be characterised by the distinctive smell of “organic carbonisation” which is what post-dissolved clothes (and flesh) are likely to smell of. Smells a bit like the floor of a garage where all the gungy bits have been swept…

H3O.CL (HCL gas dissolved & dissociated in water)
Hydrochloric acid is a solution of gas in water no stronger than 36%. This “strength” is referred to as “concentrated”. Anyone telling you there’s such a thing as 90-100% HCL at room temperature & in solution is therefore billy bullcrap, as there’s no such animal. Because HCL is neither an oxidising agent, or dehydrating agent, the effect of getting HCL on the skin is very limited. Think getting orange juice on your hands. It won’t even sting unless it gets into a cut or a raw wound or your eyes. However, if HCL comes into contact with clothes of the right material, it will heat up, and release fumes that irrirate and cause further spreading of the “corrisive” effect. Scalding and a corrosive gas cloud are therefore the main agents of burns to the skin and other soft parts of the body (especially if inhaled) from this otherwise quite benign conentrated acid, as far as acids go. I’ve used Conc HCL to wash iron stains & permangnate stains off my hands with no ill effect.

H3O.NO3 (N2O5 gas dissolved in water, making 2HNO3 which dissociates into H3O.NO3 in excess of water.)
Nitric Acid, like Hydrochloric acid is a gas dissolved in water, but like sulphuric acid, the gas is a strong oxidising agent in it’s own right. The concentrated solution is about 65%, meaning this acid has both the power to be very corrosive to metals, and the oxidizing power to char flesh.
Skin burns actually look like nicotine stains within a few seconds of contact, followed by skin destruction if the very-water soluble acid is not washed off straight away. Unlike Oleum, acid solutions such as Hydrochloric and Nitric acids are fairly safe to just wash off under a tap/shower.

Cold HNO3 has the power to instantly corrode Copper, whereas Oleum only reacts very slowly with copper, and HCL will merely “clean” it, albeit dissolve it slowly over time, as the fresh metal is oxidised by normal air exposure, and then dissolved in turn. HNO3 can also rapidly oxidise organic matter with enough heat to cause the material (eg. sawdust, custard powder, sugar) to spontaneously ignite. The salts of Nitric acid are a common ingredient of fireworks.

Nitric acid is probably the most overall dangerous of these three common mineral acids in their respective concentrated states, because of it’s ability to burn skin, corroded metal, and start fires.

Oleum has no smell as the oily liquid, but will soon start emitting various odours once it starts reacting with contact matter. It’s the “unseen enemy” causing more serious injury because people didn’t know quick enough they’d been burned by it.

Hydrochloric acid’s more limited danger factor is mostly because of the fumes it will often throw up from contact with material other than the victim themselves. These fumes are most likely to be straight HCL vapour or Chlorine Gas which is even worse when breathed in, as it’s more difficult to purge from the lungs owing to it’s density.
(You don’t give the kiss of life to someone gassed with Chlorine put it that way!)

Hi winseer just out pof curiosty wat would happen if oleum and hydrogen peroxide came imto contact ?

Kenny1975:
Wasn’t there an incident with a tanker on the M6 near Holms Chappel where a tanker was either leaking or it had crashed and it was leaking.

The driver didnt have a clue what was on board, but somtimes carried very bad stuff. The emergency services wouldnt go near it for hours, the road was closed most of the day they were having trouble finding someone who knew what was on board.

Turns out it was something harmless in the end.

Prob urban myth but someone told me thats what prompted the haz boards.

one of Sammy Jones from Aldridge had a smash at Holmes chapel think it was vomit who was driving it . the driver did have a clue and it was none a hazardous product. but they had to wait for another tanker to pump it off him before they could recover it as the discharge pipe had broken off and it had to top discharged .